IPC G1000

FWIW, Cessna's training specifically states that it's not recommended
to pull breakers to simulate failures.

It really boils down to finding the single points of failure. In the
Cessna piston G1000 package the AHARS and ADC are the only single
boxes that matter in the system. The GIAs are duplicated (giving you
2 independent NAV/COMs and 2 GPS units), the engine analyzer and
transponder are a nuisance to lose at best, and the screens are
duplicated and have manual and automatic failover. With all the
redundancy there really aren't many failure modes I can think of which
will leave you with nothing at all. PFD and master electric failure
at the same time? Even if the AHARS kicks out you have the backup AI
and both screens with MFD, wet compass, and inset maps for heading.
ADC kicks out you lose your speed tape, TAS, and altitude display.
Standby ASI and altimeter, move along, nothing to see here.

Perhaps during training some of the partial panel training could be
conducted in steam gauge aircraft or simulators which IMHO would be
better than attempting to concoct multiple system failures in
combinations which wouldn't appear for the 1st time in IMC?

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:26:53 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

I haven't looked, but are there CB that can be pulled to
fail components of the G1000 package?

On 24 Aug 2006 21:14:17 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


Jim Macklin wrote:
I haven't looked, but are there CB that can be pulled to
fail components of the G1000 package?

There are but our procedures prohibit us from pulling them. I"m not
sure if Cessna things it can be bad to pull them in flight or what the
reason is.

When I took the factory training they said "they're circuit breakers,
not switches."

Captain Obvious to the rescue........

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:24:40 -0700, Sam Spade
wrote:

Jim Macklin wrote:

There is a train of thought that pulling CB as switches can
weaken the springs and latches that make the CB function. I
doubt that is a problem with modern designs. I'd have to
look at the TSO, but imagine they are good for thousands of
cycles.

At one time Cessna and Piper were using flush CB. I do know
that in the Beech aircraft we pulled CB all the time, on the
landing gear, flaps, radios, and never had a CB failure.

If I were instructing in a G1000 airplane, I would first use
aux. power and run the G1000 on the ground, pulling CB and
noting what failed and what did not. I would then start the
engine and do the same while on the ground. Then I'd repeat
it in-flight, noting any differences and creating my own
checklist and reversion list.


I would sure clear that with both Garmin and the aircraft manufacturer
first. You might reduce the life of certain components by doing that.
These are not electromechanical devices at rest like flaps or landing
gear. Some of this electronic stuff likes to go through a shutdown
sequence. This may, or may not, apply to the G-1000.

My experience with Garmin stuff is limited to the 530. I would never
pull the CB for it without first turning the unit off.

The G1000 simulator sells on Garmin's website for like $3 and some
change and allows the user to create combinations of failures of the
variety of components in the system.

Peter Clark wrote:

transponder (is)a nuisance to lose at best...
I wonder whether the VLJ folks who are using the G-1000 plan on
transponder redundancy. Loss of a transponder can result in ATC booting
an airplane out of Class A airspace.

Peter Clark wrote:
On 24 Aug 2006 21:14:17 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


Jim Macklin wrote:
I haven't looked, but are there CB that can be pulled to
fail components of the G1000 package?

There are but our procedures prohibit us from pulling them. I"m not
sure if Cessna things it can be bad to pull them in flight or what the
reason is.

When I took the factory training they said "they're circuit breakers,
not switches."

That's not so obvious though. When training in the Mooneys the
procedure is to pull the gear actuator breaker to ensure the student
not only puts the gear down but also checks that its down. In most
cases the students notice the lack the Mooney "thud" sounds when the
gear locks down. However, pulling the gear warning horn is prohibited.
So there are cases where CFIs are instructed to pull breakers.

-Robert, CFII

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:23:20 -0700, Sam Spade
wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:

transponder (is)a nuisance to lose at best...
I wonder whether the VLJ folks who are using the G-1000 plan on
transponder redundancy. Loss of a transponder can result in ATC booting
an airplane out of Class A airspace.

Which is why I was specifically referencing the NAV III (piston)
setup. I believe the Mustang is equipped with dual GTX, AHARS, and
ADCs in addition to a weather radar and additional (larger?) third
screen as it's MFD, the other (standard) GDUs are configured for PFD
in that setup.

Peter Clark wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:23:20 -0700, Sam Spade
wrote:


Peter Clark wrote:


transponder (is)a nuisance to lose at best...

I wonder whether the VLJ folks who are using the G-1000 plan on
transponder redundancy. Loss of a transponder can result in ATC booting
an airplane out of Class A airspace.


Which is why I was specifically referencing the NAV III (piston)
setup. I believe the Mustang is equipped with dual GTX, AHARS, and
ADCs in addition to a weather radar and additional (larger?) third
screen as it's MFD, the other (standard) GDUs are configured for PFD
in that setup.

I see that you did. But, that still left a hole in my education about
what they are up to with this stuff in the VLJs. Thanks for the
clarification.

It really boils down to finding the single points of failure. In the
Cessna piston G1000 package the AHARS and ADC are the only single
boxes that matter in the system.

I agree that a AHARS or ADC failure are the scary ones in IMC (AHRS more than ADC)
It would be nice to be able to simulate thoose failures for training.
In the 182 I'm flying the ADC and AHRS are on the same CB,
if you pull the CB you loose Mode C as the transponder uses the ADC to know altitude.

One can use the G1000 PC simulator to see what a failure looks like, but it
does not really help you test your scan and ability to navigate and control the aircraft in IMC.


Paul

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:slzHg.8138$cw.5587@fed1read03...

There is a train of thought that pulling CB as switches can

snip...

My experience with Garmin stuff is limited to the 530. I would never pull
the CB for it without first turning the unit off.

Why Sam? I'm just starting to play with one, and I'm curious.

Al G

Al wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:slzHg.8138$cw.5587@fed1read03...

There is a train of thought that pulling CB as switches can


snip...


My experience with Garmin stuff is limited to the 530. I would never pull
the CB for it without first turning the unit off.


Why Sam? I'm just starting to play with one, and I'm curious.

Al G


It is a complex piece of electronics. When you turn it off with the
power switch it might shut down in stages. That is stuff only Garmin
and a savvy avionics tech knows. When you pull the circuit breaker there
is no opportunity for the device to power down.