Martinsville Approach

In article , wrote:

We need to learn what intervention, if any, on the part of ATC. Perhaps a
vector?

Good question. I don't know the area, but they may not have had radar
service available. I know when we go into KSLK (Saranac Lake, NY),
Boston center tells us radar service is terminated, and we're going
stricly by navaids. No radar vectors available because of the
mountains; we have to do the full procedure. Perhaps this airport's
the same; I don't know.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Clifton Park, NY =USA=

Garner Miller wrote:
: Good question. I don't know the area, but they may not have had radar
: service available. I know when we go into KSLK (Saranac Lake, NY),
: Boston center tells us radar service is terminated, and we're going
: stricly by navaids. No radar vectors available because of the
: mountains; we have to do the full procedure. Perhaps this airport's
: the same; I don't know.

It most likely is. A number of approaches in this area (like my home base)
are negative radar below 5000' MSA because of the mountains. Greensboro might have
had them from the flatlands there, but we'll have to wait and see.

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Garner Miller wrote:

In article , wrote:

We need to learn what intervention, if any, on the part of ATC. Perhaps a
vector?

Good question. I don't know the area, but they may not have had radar
service available. I know when we go into KSLK (Saranac Lake, NY),
Boston center tells us radar service is terminated, and we're going
stricly by navaids. No radar vectors available because of the
mountains; we have to do the full procedure. Perhaps this airport's
the same; I don't know.


I've seen the Greensboro TRACON MVA chart. The MVA over the airport is 3600.
To the west and northwest it is 4400; except for a circle around the Bull
Mountain area where the MVA is 5200. It's 31 miles from the ASR antenna to
KMTV.

So, I doubt they can see them down low but probably 2,000 feet, or so, above
field elevation. That would be good enough for limited vectoring but it
wouldn't seem good enough for a departure or missed approach vector.

If this were a major airline accident we would probably already know a lot about
the ATC handling. But, like any government agency, the NTSB doesn't talk during
an investigation unless politics force them to.

In article , says...



We need to learn what intervention, if any, on the part of ATC. Perhaps a
vector?



Good suggestion. In fact, it reminds me is some ways of another KingAir
accident a few years back at North Adams Mass (AQW). The flight crew
apparently got their departure clearance mixed up - they read it back
correctly, but later transmissions indicated they had mixed it up. Had we not
known this, we would have difficulty understanding how they flew into a
mountain, which they certainly knew was there, and which they easily had the
performance capability to avoid.

Similar kind of circumstances - night (dawn)IMC - mountains only 2800ft high,
5 or 6 nm away from the airport. They were cleared to 5000, expecting higher
in ten minutes, but they somehow thought they were cleared to only 2300.


I'm not trying to "guess" that the causes are similar - but the line of
thinking is certainly rational.

G Faris

Actually the WX was
WEATHER: KMTV 241620Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM OVC006 14/13 A2998 RMK A01

LOC30 minimums with DME are 400-1, however approximately 20 aircraft,
probably most with two man professional crews, had missed the approach and
diverted so the weather might not have been as good on approach as it was at
the airport.



Ernie
BE36 (E-160)
KDVO





"Maule Driver" wrote in message
news
Or perhaps no failure was involved. The reported ceiling was 100 below
MDA
and rising according to the sequence reports. Two pilots searching for
visual contact with an airport they had gone into many times....

What I'm reminded of once again is if you fly the procedure to standard
with
discipline and not too much judgement, it all works.

We'll just have to wait to hopefully find out. But that may never happen.

"OtisWinslow"
Flying the approach seems so basic .. especially with 2 pilots .. that it
sure makes you wonder about a failure of some sort that distracted the
crew.

Richard Hertz wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
hlink.net...


I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle



If that approach gives a pucker factor then I suggest you get some more
training.


Me thinks you were not there that night, so keep your degrading opinions
to your self.
Michelle
--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

"Michelle P" wrote in message
ink.net...


Richard Hertz wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
thlink.net...

I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle


If that approach gives a pucker factor then I suggest you get some more
training.

Me thinks you were not there that night, so keep your degrading opinions
to your self.
Michelle

And methinks that if you have trouble with that approach then there is a
problem. Why is there a problem with that approach? It is not difficult.
Are you saying it is? I did not intend to be degrading, just that it is a
simple approach and if it gives someone reason to pucker then perhaps they
need more training to get confidence.

If perhaps you meant the puckering to be from other circumstances then I
cannot be held responsible as that was not stated in the original post. The
pucker statement immediately followed the part about flying the missed
incorectly. I can't see how it is difficult to follow the instructions on
that chart. That is all. if you choose to be offended that is not my
problem.


--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity