Part 91 Commercial Glider Rides to be Outlawed?

The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further information yet. I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5) which allows nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This is bread & butter for a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow to our sport. Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands of people a year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission, drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part 135. "This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople just
trying to earn an income," said Andy Cebula, an AOPA senior vice president.
"The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons, but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights."

this would be an interesting one to discuss and to make sure that the SSA
and AOPA is involved.. obviously AOPA is..

Most of the language in Part 135 addresses "aircraft", which would include
gliders.. but when it references the paragraphs covering drug/alcohol use
and testing programs.. they refer to "Airplane" or "Rotorcraft", not
gliders..

It's time to call your new SSA President and see if you are getting your
money's worth.

BT

"Vaughn" wrote in message
news
The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further information yet.
I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5) which allows
nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This is bread & butter for a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow to our sport.
Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands of people a year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission, drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part 135. "This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople just
trying to earn an income," said Andy Cebula, an AOPA senior vice
president.
"The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons, but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights."

"Vaughn" wrote in message
news
The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further information yet.
I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5) which allows
nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This is bread & butter for a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow to our sport.
Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands of people a year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission, drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part 135. "This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople just
trying to earn an income," said Andy Cebula, an AOPA senior vice
president.
"The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons, but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights."




One would wonder if this would also spell the end to the EAA Young Eagles
program. Our chapter has flown hundreds of kids and that would be a great
shame.....

Scott.

I pulled the NPRM from the FAA website. Relax. In
the introduction it states that this rule is for powered
aircraft only, specifically NOT for gliders or hot
air balloons.

Ian

At 03:30 27 October 2003, Scott Correa wrote:

'Vaughn' wrote in message
news
..
The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further
information yet.
I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5)
which allows
nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This
is bread & butter for a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow
to our sport.
Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands
of people a year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the
charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING
OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published
this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local
charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission,
drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The
proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots
conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an
exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical
miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this
exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part
135. 'This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots
who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople
just
trying to earn an income,' said Andy Cebula, an AOPA
senior vice
president.
'The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons,
but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight
hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights.'




One would wonder if this would also spell the end to
the EAA Young Eagles
program. Our chapter has flown hundreds of kids and
that would be a great
shame.....

Scott.

If you go to this document (right hand column on first page), you will
see that the proposal does not apply to commercial glider operations:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p77/257434.pdf



Vaughn wrote:
The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further information yet. I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5) which allows nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This is bread & butter for a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow to our sport. Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands of people a year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission, drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part 135. "This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople just
trying to earn an income," said Andy Cebula, an AOPA senior vice president.
"The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons, but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights."

At 02:18 27 October 2003, Vaughn wrote:
Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Well, sorta... the NPRM to which AOPA refers is online
at:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p77/257434.pdf

This NPRM and its potential impact on soaring are being
studied by SSA's Government Liaison committee and
staff - and we'll have more details on the SSA website
ASAP. In the meantime, please note:

The focal points of this rather complex proposal are
-

1) 'Commercial Air Tour' operators using airplanes
and helicopters - most particularly those involving
aircraft with up to 30 seats and a payload weight of
up to 7500 pounds.

2) NTSB recommendations which call for national certification
& operating rules for 'Air Tour' operators

3) new rules outlining limitations on rides offered
for compensation or hire in connection with community
or charitable 'airlift' events, including instances
when such rides are given per 61.113(d) by private
pilots.

Notably, with respect to items 1 & 2, the background
section of the NPRM indicates, 'While some air tour
operations are conducted in hot air balloons and gliders,
this proposal is intended to regulate commercial air
tours conducted in powered aircraft only.'

Unfortunately, the proposed definition of 'commercial
Air Tour' operator refers to 'powered aircraft' and
makes no mention of an exclusion for motorgliders...
calling into question whether the new rules targeting
airplanes and helicopters would be mis-applied to them.

In terms of item 3, NPRM wording describes the targeted
community/charitable events as infrequent fundraising
pursuits which are or may be open to abuse by pilots
or corporate entities actually operating on a for-profit
basis.Through its discussion of regulatory intent,
the NPRM appears geared toward special-event types
of activities, not the on-going activities of a club
which offers introductory flights in order to draw
new member/students.

Finally with respect to item 3, note that neither Part
135 certification (a rather complex procedure) nor
drug and alcohol testing per certain sub-sections of
Part 135 are proposed for community or charitable 'airlift'
events, for instruction including introductory flights
given by a CFI or for 'demonstration flights' of various
types. Again, however, the proposal contains no exclusion
specifically referring to introductory or demonstration
flights conducted in gliders or balloons by commercial
pilots.

Judy

based on the information provided.. your pilots will need more hours to fly
them.. not cancel the program.. just more stringent restrictions on the
pilots who fly them..


"Scott Correa" wrote in message
...

"Vaughn" wrote in message
news
The following is from an AOPA post and I have no further information
yet.
I
assume that they are talking about eliminating 135.1(5) which allows
nonstop
sightseeing flights within a 25-mile radius. This is bread & butter for
a
lot of soaring schools and would be a serious blow to our sport.
Commercial
glider rides are also an avenue that introduces thousands of people a
year
to our sport, including myself. I assume that the charity flight
restrictions would also crimp some club operations.

Someone please tell me I have this wrong.

Vaughn (a guy who loves to give glider rides)


FAA PROPOSAL WOULD SQUEEZE CHARITY FLIGHTS, SIGHTSEEING OPS
An FAA notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) published this week would
likely shrink the pool of pilots able to help local charities with
fundraising flights and, by the FAA's own admission, drive hundreds
of small sightseeing operations out of business. The proposal would
raise the minimum number of hours required for pilots conducting charity
fundraising flights from 200 to 500, and remove an exemption that allows
FAR Part 91 sightseeing flights within 25 nautical miles of an airport.
Operators currently conducting flights under this exception would then
be subject to the operational requirements of Part 135. "This proposed
rule is a real slap in the face to Part 91 pilots who contribute their
time and services to worthy causes, and to small businesspeople just
trying to earn an income," said Andy Cebula, an AOPA senior vice
president.
"The FAA claims the change is for safety reasons, but they provide no
safety data or statistics to justify the jump in flight hours required
to conduct charitable fundraising flights."




One would wonder if this would also spell the end to the EAA Young Eagles
program. Our chapter has flown hundreds of kids and that would be a great
shame.....

Scott.

"Judy Ruprecht" wrote in message
...
At 02:18 27 October 2003, Vaughn wrote:
Notably, with respect to items 1 & 2, the background
section of the NPRM indicates, 'While some air tour
operations are conducted in hot air balloons and gliders,
this proposal is intended to regulate commercial air
tours conducted in powered aircraft only.'

Unfortunately, the proposed definition of 'commercial
Air Tour' operator refers to 'powered aircraft' and
makes no mention of an exclusion for motorgliders...
calling into question whether the new rules targeting
airplanes and helicopters would be mis-applied to them.


I don't think this is a problem. Motorgliders are not "powered aircraft"
anymore than Gliders are "powered aircraft". According to the reg's,
Motorgliders are a subset of Gliders and need a glider license with an
endorsement for motorization.

Scott.

At 05:54 27 October 2003, Scott Correa wrote:
According to the reg's,
Motorgliders are a subset of Gliders and need a glider
license with an
endorsement for motorization.

Actually, the word 'motorglider' is completely absent
from FAR Parts 61 and 91 dealing with pilot certification
and basic Operating Rules. The two FAA references to
'motorgliders' with which I am acquainted lie in an
advisory circulars, which are non-regulatory.

Judy

"Judy Ruprecht" wrote in message
...
At 05:54 27 October 2003, Scott Correa wrote:
According to the reg's,
Motorgliders are a subset of Gliders and need a glider
license with an
endorsement for motorization.

Actually, the word 'motorglider' is completely absent
from FAR Parts 61 and 91 dealing with pilot certification
and basic Operating Rules. The two FAA references to
'motorgliders' with which I am acquainted lie in an
advisory circulars, which are non-regulatory.

Judy


The FAA uses the term "self-launch" - FAR 61.31(j)(1)(iii)

Ivan