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How safe is the sport of soaring today



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 13th 04, 07:20 PM
Mot
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Default How safe is the sport of soaring today

With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?
  #2  
Old May 13th 04, 07:51 PM
Bill Daniels
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"Mot" wrote in message
m...
With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?


I've been in this sport over four decades and every spring there is a rash
of accidents as rusty pilots come out of hibernation. Comparing soaring to
motorsports has much less to do with the equipment or procedures than with
the safety culture of the group. Safety boils down to the loose nut at the
controls.

Soaring is neither more dangerous nor safer than the pilot makes it. I know
a half dozen or so who, sooner or later, will certainly kill themselves. I
know a lot more that will never so much as put a scratch on their gliders no
matter how much they fly. I just wish the former would pay a lot more
attention to the latter.

Bill Daniels

  #3  
Old May 13th 04, 10:27 PM
Don Johnstone
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At 19:06 13 May 2004, Bill Daniels wrote:

'Mot' wrote in message
om...
With the increase of glider accidents these days,
just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated
with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation
or
motorsports?


I've been in this sport over four decades and every
spring there is a rash
of accidents as rusty pilots come out of hibernation.
Comparing soaring to
motorsports has much less to do with the equipment
or procedures than with
the safety culture of the group. Safety boils down
to the loose nut at the
controls.

Soaring is neither more dangerous nor safer than the
pilot makes it. I know
a half dozen or so who, sooner or later, will certainly
kill themselves. I
know a lot more that will never so much as put a scratch
on their gliders no
matter how much they fly. I just wish the former would
pay a lot more
attention to the latter.

Bill Daniels

Amen to that

DAJ 401



  #4  
Old May 13th 04, 11:00 PM
Bob Johnson
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Default

Whenever this subject comes up, as it often does, I like to refer to the
site maintained by DG/LS. Bruno Gantenbrinck's essay pretty much says it
all ---

BTW, thanks DG/LS!

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/index-e.html

Bob Johnson



Mot wrote:

With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

  #5  
Old May 14th 04, 12:07 AM
Bill Daniels
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"Asbjorn Hojmark" wrote in message
city.dk...
On Thu, 13 May 2004 18:51:50 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

I know a half dozen or so who, sooner or later, will certainly
kill themselves.


Really?! What are you going to do about it?


First, realize that there are some people who will never operate a glider
safely. No amount of training will change them. No amount of persuasion
will make them find a hobby which is practiced at ground level. I suspect
all instructors have a short list of pilots who would be better off doing
something else.

Second, I make absolutely sure my signature never appears in their logbook
meaning I will never pass them on a flight review. Where possible, I would
attempt to persuade other instructors of that view. In fact, I find
instructors have VERY similar lists. It makes me wonder why insurance
companies haven't offered to buy those lists.

Beyond that, in a litigious society like the USA, there isn't much one can
do except try not to be present when the inevitable happens.

Bill Daniels


  #6  
Old May 14th 04, 01:25 AM
JJ Sinclair
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Second, I make absolutely sure my signature never appears in their logbook
meaning I will never pass them on a flight review.


Shouldn't we be telling these guys exactly what we think? I know of 2 pilots
that were killed in sailplanes where their instructor later said, "I knew it
was going to happen". Aren't we doing everyone a disservice by sighing them off
when we really don't think they are safe? I'm not talking about you Bill, But
someone is sighing these marginal people off every 2 years. If an instructor
were to tell them the truth, as he sees it, they might just get the message.
JJ Sinclair
  #7  
Old May 14th 04, 01:59 AM
Bill Daniels
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"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...


Second, I make absolutely sure my signature never appears in their

logbook
meaning I will never pass them on a flight review.


Shouldn't we be telling these guys exactly what we think? I know of 2

pilots
that were killed in sailplanes where their instructor later said, "I knew

it
was going to happen". Aren't we doing everyone a disservice by sighing

them off
when we really don't think they are safe? I'm not talking about you Bill,

But
someone is sighing these marginal people off every 2 years. If an

instructor
were to tell them the truth, as he sees it, they might just get the

message.
JJ Sinclair


[their instructor later said, "I knew it was going to happen."]

That statement is a prima facie basis for a professional negligence lawsuit
and perhaps criminal prosecution for negligent homicide. It's also the
basis for the FAA to suspend an instructor certificate. I wish these
instructors would think about THAT.

I've told a few pilots just what I think and all it's got me is
unpopularity. They just find an easier instructor or, if they own their own
glider, they don't bother getting a BFR. I know of a few that no instructor
will admit signing off.

Most of the time these days when I do a BFR it's a pilot that I personally
know and whose skills I respect.

Bill Daniels


  #8  
Old May 14th 04, 02:47 AM
Vaughn
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"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...

... But someone is sighing these marginal people off every 2 years.


Not necessarily true, at least not necessarily in a glider. It is possible
to be an adequate power pilot but a dangerous glider pilot (or the other way
around) but a flight review is only required in one category.

Vaughn


  #9  
Old May 14th 04, 08:16 AM
Finbar
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Not to be difficult or necessarily disagree that there are pilots who
are accidents waiting to happen, but...

....most of the fatal accidents so far this year seem to have involved
highly experienced pilots with good reputations.

Telling ourselves that "it only happens to the bad pilots" and "it
isn't really all that risky" could either be true, or could be
dangerously close to denial (or overconfidence).

The evidence does suggest it's not entirely true.
  #10  
Old May 14th 04, 08:26 AM
Clint
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Bruno Gantenbrinck's essay pretty much says it


I read this excellent essay and was surprised to see Heini Heiress's
name listed in the essay. Heini's son - Dieter was killed in his
glider last month - 30 years after his father's death. A more safety
conscience pilot was hard to find. Everything about his glider was
also immaculate. He was a pilot that represented South Africa on three
occasions in the World Gliding Championships in the Std Class.

Soaring is a sport that can bite any participant - even the best!

Clinton Birch
LAK 12
 




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