TV Interview With Pilot From ADIZ Incident

The statement also says that they "took a more
southerly route in order to avoid the restricted airspace over camp
david",
but its kinda unbelievable because the direct route was right over DC. To
get into camp david they would have to fly a lot more west that they
needed
to get to the airport in NC.

I looked at that too.
In 0.24 seconds Googleing "DC ADIZ TFR Camp David Prohibited" gave me
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/tfrweb.pdf
as it's #1 return.
This guy went on and on about how he checked so many websites about weather
and such, even the AOPA web site. If he was so worried about the Camp David
P area, he could have found the FAA TFR pdf as easy as I did, and if he
would have, he would have saw the list of requirements not only to enter the
ADIZ, but the intercept procedures as well.

Jim

"suspension".... now there's something that really ****es me off. 1 year
suspension.

I think it should be a life time permanent revocation never able to apply
for a certificate of any kind ever again even after your dead for freaking
EVER!

....and the same thing for any CFI, DE, FSDO Inspector, or pilot/attorney
that tries to help this guy get his certificate back.

Jim

"Peter R." wrote in message
ups.com...
Robert wrote:

What a total waste of life.

Not too strong of a statement, is that?

I doubt very much his family and friends think he is a waste of life.
His piloting skills are obviously questionable, as well as the fact
that he is not admitting any responsibility (thanks, no doubt, to that
high priced lawyer sitting next to him in the interview), but to say he
is a total waste of life is just a bit over the top, no?

Agree with Peter. The guy doesn't deserve to be a pilot anymore, but
Robert's statement is a little bit too much.
It's pretty lame that he did not admit his responsibility, definitely!
He should have said "yea, i was irresponsible, and I overlooked a very
important aspect in my flight planning". Doesn't make him a better pilot,
but at least would show that he is a human being who recognizes his
mistakes.

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
"suspension".... now there's something that really ****es me off. 1 year
suspension.

I think it should be a life time permanent revocation never able to apply
for a certificate of any kind ever again even after your dead for freaking
EVER!

...and the same thing for any CFI, DE, FSDO Inspector, or pilot/attorney
that tries to help this guy get his certificate back.

They are going to appeal because the supension is way longer than others.
Now that is ****ed up. If I had done that, and had gotten only a one year
suspension, I'd be more than willing to accept that and be very happy about
it.
About the student pilot, I don't really know how he didn't think about that
either. 30 hours is not that little. At least he learned a valuable lesson
without having any suspension (which couldn't be done anyways because he
didnt have any responsibility)

Now, I wonder what would have happened in case both people had been pilots.
Will they suspend both? Technically only one of the pilots is the PIC, and
I've been told that it is a good idea to agree on that before a flight (who
is the PIC), but I wonder who would they charge in that case?

g

Jim Burns wrote:

I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin, but he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

He should have?? He was a passenger. While it may be a good
learning exercise (assuming he was even at that stage of his training),
I wouldn't expect a passenger to go to that kind of effort. If this
was a training flight with an actual instructor, that would be a
different story.

When I go along for a ride as a passenger, I don't flight plan a
proposed route. I let the PIC take care of that.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin, but
he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

Why? Do you expect your passengers to supervise your navigation?

--Gary

"Guillermo" wrote

Now, I wonder what would have happened in case both people had been
pilots.
Will they suspend both? Technically only one of the pilots is the PIC, and
I've been told that it is a good idea to agree on that before a flight
(who
is the PIC), but I wonder who would they charge in that case?

It seems to me that charges could also be filed, for letting a non pilot
manipulate the controls. Since the 70 year old is not a CFI, the student is
just the same as a non pilot, and if he (the student) was PIC, he would be
in violation for taking a passenger with him. Both of these are against
regs, aren't they?
--
Jim in NC

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
The "he was a passenger" is a cop out. If you are a pilot, even a student
pilot with only 30 hours, and you are in the airplane, why wouldn't you do
everything you could to be prepared??

Perhaps because you understand the concept of PIC and take it seriously. So
you understand that the flight is not in any way your responsibility; and
you have no reason to doubt that the person who *is* responsible is capable
of doing the job. (Or if you *do* have reason to doubt that, then you
shouldn't agree to the trip no matter how "prepared" you are.)

--Gary

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
I expect any student pilot passengers that ride along on cross country
flights with me to at least show the initiative and interest to figure out
where we're going, how long it will take, how we're going to get there,
and
if we stray off course could we end up running into anything or possibly
get
shot down by F16's. If they don't want to do the work at home, we can do
it
together, but he will do it. Any student that doesn't at least show that
much interest can walk, and I don't care if he's a student of mine or of
any
other instructor. If a person has something in their wallet that says FAA
and Pilot on it, they should at least be responsible for their own flight
safety to what ever extent they can. I have no tolerance for pilots who
are
passengers that sit idly by all fat, dumb, and happy, wondering where they
are rather than knowing. Nowhere did I mention or suggest "supervising"
the
PIC, the PIC was in charge, but that doesn't mean that the pilot/passenger
should be a corpse. What I am suggesting is that Martin could have
monitored their flight path and watched out for his own ass. He had the
ability and the knowledge, and if he would have used it, he could have
saved
them both a lot of trouble. If I was Martin's CFI, we would begin the
cross country planning lessons all over and it would last a good while.

Jim


I'd start with a review of CRM...

This isn't that much unlike cases where 1st Officers have allowed Captains
to kill both of them (and everyone in the back of the bus) by flying into
t-storms or CFIT without uttering a peep.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
Any student that doesn't at least show that
much interest can walk, and I don't care if he's a student of mine or of
any
other instructor.

That's a perfectly reasonable choice for you to make, especially since
you're an instructor. But there's also nothing unreasonable about a PIC
being willing to carry a student passenger who does *not* take that interest
on that particular flight (especially a PIC who is *not* an instructor); and
there'd be nothing unreasonable about being such a passenger.

But I don't understand why you leap to the conclusion that the student
*didn't* take an interest in planning the flight. The pilots' joint
statement claims they both did pre-flight planning; do you have evidence to
the contrary? The student was actually flying the plane; perhaps he was not
yet far enough along in his training to navigate reliably while doing so, so
he depended on the PIC to interpret where they were (relative to their
pre-planned track) and to say what heading to fly. The PIC got lost, thought
they were elsewhere, and specified the wrong headings.

--Gary