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ASH25 out to kill you?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 25th 19, 10:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ripacheco1967
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Posts: 73
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 4:38:10 PM UTC-5, ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 1:29:49 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Disagree again......the point raise has nothing to do with recoveries but was written for Lawyers that all attempt is being made to educate dumb pilots not to perform ABRUPT maneuvers or flight control movement in the high speed regime. I say dumb because any airmen worth his salt knows this.
Case in point American Airlines co-pilot full rudder deflection leads to vertical stab failure killing all on board and most recently the loss of an Amazon 767 due to
excessive elevator deflection.
Vo....Maximum Operating Maneuvering Speed...the speed at which if exceeded structural failure could occur with abrupt control movement.
Vne...Never Exceed
This is basic airmen knowledge as important as blue side up and what does the rudder do. Basic

Long wing (open class) sailplanes have additional considerations, but lets hold off on that for now.
A 27 ... enjoy....read the AOM.

R


I like the fact is a two seater, So I can have a qualified instructor saving my behind ;-)


I am not familiar about issues with the AWS 27, care to enlighten a beginner ?
  #12  
Old May 26th 19, 12:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

On Sat, 25 May 2019 14:38:46 -0700, ripacheco1967 wrote:

I am not familiar about issues with the AWS 27, care to enlighten a
beginner ?

ASW-27 is a 15 m flapped single seater - replaced the well-regarded
ASW-20.

Unflapped 15m gliders are generally easy to fly, i.e. little harder to
fly than a training two seater such as an ASK-21, G-103 or Puchacz once
you've engrained the undercarriage retract lever into your pre-landing
checks. Flapped gliders are a bit different especially as, unlike power,
the flap lever tends to be your prime speed control throughout the flight
and not just for launch and landing.

A straight-forward web search for the type name such as ASW-27, LAK-17,
ASK-21 or Puchacz generally gives several hits on any glider that is
flown currently. Try 'Perlan 2' if you want to see something thats really
extreme or SG-38 for a blast from the past.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #13  
Old May 26th 19, 02:00 AM
Ventus_a Ventus_a is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: May 2010
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [_2_] View Post
Disagree again......the point raise has nothing to do with recoveries but was written for Lawyers that all attempt is being made to educate dumb pilots not to perform ABRUPT maneuvers or flight control movement in the high speed regime. I say dumb because any airmen worth his salt knows this.
Case in point American Airlines co-pilot full rudder deflection leads to vertical stab failure killing all on board and most recently the loss of an Amazon 767 due to
excessive elevator deflection.
Vo....Maximum Operating Maneuvering Speed...the speed at which if exceeded structural failure could occur with abrupt control movement.
Vne...Never Exceed
This is basic airmen knowledge as important as blue side up and what does the rudder do. Basic

Long wing (open class) sailplanes have additional considerations, but lets hold off on that for now.
A 27 ... enjoy....read the AOM.

R
Hi. Just curious as to how much open class time you have.
  #14  
Old May 26th 19, 02:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default ASH25 out to kill you?

Having just started flying a flapped glider, I have found very little difference in ease of flying. The flaps are used in much the same way as elevator trim.
  #15  
Old May 26th 19, 01:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

On Sat, 25 May 2019 18:35:02 -0700, Charlie Quebec wrote:

Having just started flying a flapped glider, I have found very little
difference in ease of flying. The flaps are used in much the same way as
elevator trim.


Yes, I agree with you - once you've made that transition. It did take me
a bit longer to be in the right flap setting at all times (ASW-20) than
it did to 'get' correct trimmer use in unflapped gliders (ASK-21/SZD
Junior/Discus 1/Pegase 90).

What I was getting at is the learning curve in both switching from from a
more or less infinitely variable trim control to using flaps with only
four or so settings and in getting used to the smaller attitude change
you generally see with flaps as you change flying speed.


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Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #16  
Old May 26th 19, 01:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,383
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

Interesting read in the link......longest span I have flown is ASK-21 and ASG-29.
  #17  
Old May 26th 19, 03:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 624
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

Towing behind the car, yes... But in the air don't let it intimidate you.
To me the ASH25 handles just like an ASW20.
Never spun one, but haven't tried in a 20 either.

Will gladly accept the give-away ASH25 after the one Steve gets.
Jim
  #18  
Old May 26th 19, 04:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

On Sun, 26 May 2019 07:53:58 -0700, JS wrote:

To me the ASH25 handles just like an ASW20.
Never spun one, but haven't tried in a 20 either.

I have and recovery is quite benign - recovery in 1/4 turn though 300 ft
lower and doing 80 kts from a 45-50 kt thermal turn with zero flaps
(position 3).

I don't know whether this was specific to my early example (s/n 34), but
it twice departed without warning from a 40 degree banked thermal term at
around 45 kts with zero flap selected. I suspect in-thermal turbulence
had a hand in that because the 2nd time it happened, I tried and failed
to provoke a similar departure in late afternoon air after I finished the
task.


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Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #19  
Old May 26th 19, 07:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 394
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

Martin,
Why are you thermalling in zero flaps? I always went to first positive flap position when thermalling the ASH-25 and never had a departure or even drop a wing.
JJ
  #20  
Old May 26th 19, 11:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default ASH25 out to kill you?

On Sun, 26 May 2019 11:52:26 -0700, johnsinclair210 wrote:

Martin,
Why are you thermalling in zero flaps? I always went to first positive
flap position when thermalling the ASH-25 and never had a departure or
even drop a wing.

I did that primarily because I preferred the glider's feel in position 3.
It always felt too stately in thermal flap (4) and didn't seem to climb
that much better, except in very weak conditions.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
 




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