Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

On Sep 1, 11:18*pm, John Smith wrote:
Flaps_50! wrote:
Up to maneuvring speed it is safe to
instantly and fully deflect any control, also the rudder.
Is this still true at MTOW?
Of course. This is the very definition of maneuvring speed. The
maneuvring speed may change with the actual weight, though.
Yes, that's my point, "" means less than.

Thanks, I know what means. But it wasn't your point.

Yes, your statement was wrong...

Cheers

On Sep 2, 12:32*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Aug 31, 5:46*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

You can do aerobatics in controlled airspace without a waver from the
director?

What in the world are you talking about? *I was in an area where
sudden changes of flight is expected (practice area) I advised ATC in
the very beginning I would be making rapid altitude changes in the
practice area which I seriously doubt most other pilots would have
thought of doing. *Your thoughts of wake turbulence is even further
out of wack as in my area, they don't send commercial traffic through
the practice area nor was anybody above me in the practice area..

Oh yeah, what defines aerobatics in your head? *Please provide
references as I am below.


You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers

On Sep 2, 12:40*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Aug 31, 1:18*pm, a wrote:

The good thing about this thread is at least some pilots may have
gained second thoughts about on purpose steep banks. The principal
posters have made their points, to which I might add "legal" does not
mean "wise" and the hope is we have become somewhat wiser.

Very well stated. *As you stated legal doesn't mean wise for those
exceeding their capability. *I did not feel I exceeded my piloting
capabilities and still remained within legal parameters of FARS 91.303
and 91.307. *Outcome speaks for itself.

A lesser bank for inexperienced pilots would be potentially a fatal
manuever.


Lordy. It's you that's inexperienced as your "Jeez" in the cockpit
revealed.
This is heading toward becoming a teaching exercise for human factors.

On Sep 2, 2:24*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 * Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No you don't get it. I was not within A, B, C or D as described that
you allude to above. I was in a designated practice area.

I wasn't performing normal flight. I was performing an emergency
procedure. What part do YOU not get.

On Sep 2, 2:30*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

Lordy. It's you that's inexperienced as your "Jeez" in the cockpit
revealed.
This is heading toward becoming a teaching exercise for human factors.

The reaction was recognition of what the plane did and how efficiently
the manuever workd. Reactions by saying Jeez do not dictate
experience.

The plane did EXACTLY what I expected during the maneuver. I banked,
the nose fell through and I recovered.

You really show your cluelessness don't you!

On Sep 3, 6:37*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 2, 2:24*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:



You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 * Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No you don't get it. *I was not within A, B, C or D as described that
you allude to above. *I was in a designated practice area.

I wasn't performing normal flight. *I was performing an emergency
procedure. *What part do YOU not get.

I don't think you read it carefully. The regs don't say within ABCD
airspace, but within _lateral_ limits of those airspaces. Since you
communicated with ATC I assume you were below one of those airspaces
and therefore within its lateral limits (not vertical). Also how far
away was the nearest highway?

Cheers

On Sep 3, 6:41*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 2, 2:30*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

Lordy. It's you that's inexperienced as your "Jeez" in the cockpit
revealed.
This is heading toward becoming a teaching exercise for human factors.

The reaction was recognition of what the plane did and how efficiently
the manuever workd. * Reactions by saying Jeez do not dictate
experience.

The plane did EXACTLY what I expected during the maneuver. *I banked,
the nose fell through and I recovered.

You really show your cluelessness don't you!

"Jeez I went through". Yep, exactly as you expected. And now an ad
hominem ...
Why am I not surprised?

Cheers

Flaps_50! wrote:
On Sep 3, 6:37Â*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 2, 2:24Â*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:



You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 Â* Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No you don't get it. Â*I was not within A, B, C or D as described that
you allude to above. Â*I was in a designated practice area.

I wasn't performing normal flight. Â*I was performing an emergency
procedure. Â*What part do YOU not get.

I don't think you read it carefully. The regs don't say within ABCD
airspace, but within _lateral_ limits of those airspaces. Since you
communicated with ATC I assume you were below one of those airspaces
and therefore within its lateral limits (not vertical). Also how far
away was the nearest highway?

Cheers

Designated practice areas are not within any limits of those airspaces
nor are they near any airway.

There is a reason for that.

One can communicate with ATC in any type of airspace.

Your objections are nonsense.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 3, 5:15*pm, wrote:
Flaps_50! wrote:
On Sep 3, 6:37*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 2, 2:24*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 * Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No you don't get it. *I was not within A, B, C or D as described that
you allude to above. *I was in a designated practice area.

I wasn't performing normal flight. *I was performing an emergency
procedure. *What part do YOU not get.

I don't think you read it carefully. The regs don't say within ABCD
airspace, but within _lateral_ limits of those airspaces. Since you
communicated with ATC I assume you were below one of those airspaces
and therefore within its lateral limits (not vertical). *Also how far
away was the nearest highway?

Cheers

Designated practice areas are not within any limits of those airspaces
nor are they near any airway.


I disagree, practice areas are often below designated airspace. It's
the lateral limits that can be a gotcha for aerobatics.

Cheers

On Sep 3, 5:15*pm, wrote:
Flaps_50! wrote:
On Sep 3, 6:37*am, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 2, 2:24*am, "Flaps_50!" wrote:

You really don't (or won't) get it?

-------------
§ 91.303 * Aerobatic flight.

No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight—

(a) Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement;

(b) Over an open air assembly of persons;

(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B,
Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport;

(d) Within 4 nautical miles of the center line of any Federal airway;

For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not
necessary for normal flight."
---------
What does "for normal flight" mean?

Cheers- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No you don't get it. *I was not within A, B, C or D as described that
you allude to above. *I was in a designated practice area.

I wasn't performing normal flight. *I was performing an emergency
procedure. *What part do YOU not get.

I don't think you read it carefully. The regs don't say within ABCD
airspace, but within _lateral_ limits of those airspaces. Since you
communicated with ATC I assume you were below one of those airspaces
and therefore within its lateral limits (not vertical). *Also how far
away was the nearest highway?

Cheers

Designated practice areas are not within any limits of those airspaces
nor are they near any airway.

There is a reason for that.

One can communicate with ATC in any type of airspace.

Your objections are nonsense.


How do you know where he was? My point is that its the _lateral_
limits of airspace that can be a no-no for aerobatics. In places,
practice areas may be below other airspace...

Cheers