Terrain Avoidance at Night

"Dan" wrote:

... or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and make a plan?

That's a good summary of what I do. If I know my route and the terrain issues from daytime flight or
examing the sectional, I can plan what altitude is required. e.g. "If I'm flying to Prescott, I know that if I'm
at 8500, I won't hit anything." As others have said, if you don't know the area, you can always fly an
instrument procedure.

Another consideration is basic risk management. My instructor used to tell me, "Night, Terrain, or
Weather - any one might be OK, but any two and you're getting risky, all three..." I don't usually venture
too far north into the mountainous areas at night unless I know exactly where I'm going, and the weather
is not a factor. Or plan the trip for twilight when there's still some ground visibility. Night flight around the
valley is very nice - smooth air, good views of the city, and not too hard to be at an altitude where terrain
just isn't a factor. Still it requires basic situational awareness - not only for terrain, but also for all the
controlled airspace. Welcome to the valley!

Mike

Full moon helps. Don't do a long shallow let-down, stay at
cruise altitude and let-down over or very near the airport.

If you have radar, tilt it up so the ground clutter is not
displayed during a shallow descent. If you see the ground,
it will be a ridge above your light path.

Use the lights of the cities, as long as your view during
let-down doesn't get "blacked out" by ridges and mountains,
you should clear obstacles.

Use oxygen above 5,000, it will improve your night vision,
whether your IFR or VFR.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
| My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where
as long as you
| were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit
and no
| terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am
increasingly
| paranoid about hitting terrain at night.
|
| Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything
even close to
| your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to
pattern
| altitude at the destination airport as well as departure.
Short of
| filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for
some local
| MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems"
or
| tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the
sectional and
| make a plan?
|
| --Dan
|

Here's what I do

Go to Landings.com
Enter your route and receive terrain avoidance altitudes
Check it on your charts
Plan route accordingly
Fly route, double checking with your terrain avoidance GPS - highly
recommend the Lowrance 2000 for $700.00

Tony
C-GICE



In article . com,
"Dan" wrote:

My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

--Dan




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

know where you are
know where the ground is
and if lights in the distance start blinking or disappearing
there is either a cloud between you and the light
or solid ground
BT

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

--Dan

Dan wrote:
My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

--Dan

Actually, it is pretty much look out the window and make a plan. I have
flown in NM, AZ and CO quite a bit, and at first I used to worry about
this too. Even in the most remote areas of the country, mountains stand
out as dark areas. So don't fly towards a dark area unless you know
what's in there. Sometimes it could be a lake or a low level cloud, but
there are not too many of those in AZ. Don't descend to pattern
altitude unless you have positively identified the runway. If there is
an obstacle between you and the airport, it will stick out as a dark
object. If the dark object is moving up your windsheld, then you better
climb. If it is getting lower, then you are ok. Once in the traffic
pattern, don't wander off too far. Very few airports have obstacles
higher than the pattern altitude within a couple of miles of the
runway, so if you keep a normal traffic pattern you should be ok. Check
the sectional chart for any unusual obstacles.

I live in California. All my night flights outside the Sacramento
valley are IFR and I carry O2.

-Robert

Dan wrote:
My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

--Dan

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

It sounds like you could use one of the newer GPS's that have terrain
awareness options. It would be pretty hard to hit something real hard, if
your flight path was not all red! g
--
Jim in NC

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
In the area around Phoenix these days, anything that isn't covered
with lights is likely to be a mountain, as I think that steep
mountainsides are the only spots left that aren't covered with
buildings and homes. The valley itself is quite flat, but it is
filled with traffic around the 12th-busiest airport in the world, and
the mountains rise rapidly around it. The terrain is flatter to the
southeast (Mesa, et al.) and southwest (towards Gila Bend), but there
are still mountains to contend with--flatter terrain is beyond. To
the north, the mountains don't let up much after you leave Phoenix.
South Mountain and its range to the south has large radio antennas
that help to mark the highest elevations.

KPHX is above 1135 feet, so 2000 MSL wouldn't give you much margin in
the valley and it will place you within terrain in many of the
surrounding mountains. I think 6000 MSL would clear most of the
mountains surrounding the valley, but I won't swear to it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

So now we're an expert in geography?

Oh, and FWIW, Sky Harbor is 14th busiest worldwide and 8th busiest
domestically.

Ciao... (That's Italian for PLONK)

"Mike Adams" wrote in message
news:caLNg.13772$c07.9506@fed1read04...
"Dan" wrote:

... or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and make a plan?

That's a good summary of what I do. If I know my route and the terrain
issues from daytime flight or
examing the sectional, I can plan what altitude is required. e.g. "If I'm
flying to Prescott, I know that if I'm
at 8500, I won't hit anything." As others have said, if you don't know the
area, you can always fly an
instrument procedure.

Another consideration is basic risk management. My instructor used to tell
me, "Night, Terrain, or
Weather - any one might be OK, but any two and you're getting risky, all
three..."

Nice approach to RM.

About a week after I'd flown my night dual XC to Prescott, I attended a
safety seminar geared specifically toward flying in AZ.

One particular presenter said he approached flying in AZ with these three
mindsets:
1) In the daytime, some parts of Arizona can be enjoyed as true VFR
2) Even, in the daytime, a few parts of Arizona should be treated as MVFR or
even IFR
3) At night, most of Arizona should be approached as HARD IFR (his
emphasis...)

Ok, so maybe Prescott wasn't such a good idea for a student cross country,
at night, when the moon was in a late rising phase...Guess I was too
ignorant to be scared. LOL!!

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

tony roberts wrote:
Here's what I do

Go to Landings.com
Enter your route and receive terrain avoidance altitudes
Check it on your charts
Plan route accordingly
Fly route, double checking with your terrain avoidance GPS - highly
recommend the Lowrance 2000 for $700.00

Tony
C-GICE



In article . com,
"Dan" wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

--Dan





Yes, as I was reading this thread I starting thinking how much I REALLY
like my little box with the green triangles, the yellow triangles and
the red triangles. Even flying VFR on the east coast (5 in haze is GOOD
weather) the terrain avoidance as well as the traffic avoidance really
helps. The XM weather will probably end up paying for itself with the
savings in hotels and rental cars for those times you get up in the air
and say, hmmmmm, if this gets any worse, it could be bad. I'll just go
back and try again tomorrow. With the XM sometimes, if you are lucky,
it comes up and shows you are in the worst of it and if you just alter
your flight 20 miles east you will avoid everything.

Margy

Margy