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Best option for electric self starting glider



 
 
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  #91  
Old April 13th 20, 05:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Duster[_2_]
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Posts: 198
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.
  #92  
Old April 13th 20, 05:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

I saw one in Robert Mudd's shop at Moriarty.Â* It appeared to be will
constructed and very roomy, but I think it's considered an ultra light
sailplane.Â* I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's my
opinion, and only my opinion, that it would be more of a floater than a
runner.Â* But it would be nice to cut the tow rope, so to speak.

On 4/13/2020 10:37 AM, Duster wrote:
Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.


--
Dan, 5J
  #93  
Old April 13th 20, 05:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Best option for electric self starting glider

Duster wrote on 4/13/2020 9:37 AM:
Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.

There at least one of them in the US, so contact them for experienced advice. I
believe the 2020 SSA convention had a presentation on it, and perhaps there was an
article in Soaring Magazine. There is also at least one gas engine Taurus in the
country, another source for info.

I've seen both of the referenced gliders fly at Parowan, the pilots and passengers
seemed to enjoy the experience. I do envy the ability to taxi upright.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #94  
Old April 13th 20, 07:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Posts: 64
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

El lunes, 13 de abril de 2020, 13:37:18 (UTC-3), Duster escribió:
Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.


Very good motor, controller and battery pack.

I flew once a taurus with the I.C. engine, very comfy and fun to share with some one at your side.

But if you like competitive soaring, is out of the question.
  #95  
Old April 13th 20, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jld
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Posts: 35
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

Taurus is a nice glider. Very roomy, nice side by side configuration when flying with friends or for instruction.
It is very well build.
Typical WL with 2 pilots is 38-40 kg/m2
The cruise performance is similar to lightly loaded standard class.
The climb performance is more like a heavy loaded standard.
It would be an excellent 2 seater with a wing more specifically designed for soaring.With modern 18m wings would make it a fantastic 2 seater.
I know the 503 version.
I have never flown the electro but it has too limited battery capacity for my need. It would need at least 10 kwh batteries for comfortable operation.




  #96  
Old April 14th 20, 01:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,439
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-7, jld wrote:
Taurus is a nice glider. Very roomy, nice side by side configuration when flying with friends or for instruction.
It is very well build.
Typical WL with 2 pilots is 38-40 kg/m2
The cruise performance is similar to lightly loaded standard class.
The climb performance is more like a heavy loaded standard.
It would be an excellent 2 seater with a wing more specifically designed for soaring.With modern 18m wings would make it a fantastic 2 seater.
I know the 503 version.
I have never flown the electro but it has too limited battery capacity for my need. It would need at least 10 kwh batteries for comfortable operation.


Electric gliders won't cut it when you have to motor a was to the lift, like at Williams. Once, Jim Leedy and I motored from KRLD to Mt. Rainier in his Taifun to get to the wave lift.

Tom

  #97  
Old April 14th 20, 03:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

2G wrote on 4/13/2020 5:54 PM:
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-7, jld wrote:
Taurus is a nice glider. Very roomy, nice side by side configuration when flying with friends or for instruction.
It is very well build.
Typical WL with 2 pilots is 38-40 kg/m2
The cruise performance is similar to lightly loaded standard class.
The climb performance is more like a heavy loaded standard.
It would be an excellent 2 seater with a wing more specifically designed for soaring.With modern 18m wings would make it a fantastic 2 seater.
I know the 503 version.
I have never flown the electro but it has too limited battery capacity for my need. It would need at least 10 kwh batteries for comfortable operation.


Electric gliders won't cut it when you have to motor a was to the lift, like at Williams. Once, Jim Leedy and I motored from KRLD to Mt. Rainier in his Taifun to get to the wave lift.


The Williams case is one I considered before choosing the Jeta. On the map, it
looks like about 20 NM the to hills to the west. Most electric gliders have that
much range; eg, the Gp15 Jeta with the large battery could launch, motor the 20
miles, and still have about 55-60 NM range left. The small battery would only have
30-35 nn range left, though. The AS34 would have about 45 NM range left after
motoring from Williams to the hills; the miniLak FES also about 45 NM, maybe more.

Everyone knows the gasoline powered self-launchers all have powered ranges that
exceed the best electric range, but that is irrelevant for most of the people
buying an electric glider. They want to eliminate the tow and dramatically
increase their chances of getting home, and the electric glider gives them what
they want. If you dream of flights that require hours of power, or airfields that
don't have electricity, you must stay with gasoline.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #98  
Old April 14th 20, 05:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,439
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:48:51 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 4/13/2020 5:54 PM:
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 2:42:54 PM UTC-7, jld wrote:
Taurus is a nice glider. Very roomy, nice side by side configuration when flying with friends or for instruction.
It is very well build.
Typical WL with 2 pilots is 38-40 kg/m2
The cruise performance is similar to lightly loaded standard class.
The climb performance is more like a heavy loaded standard.
It would be an excellent 2 seater with a wing more specifically designed for soaring.With modern 18m wings would make it a fantastic 2 seater.
I know the 503 version.
I have never flown the electro but it has too limited battery capacity for my need. It would need at least 10 kwh batteries for comfortable operation.


Electric gliders won't cut it when you have to motor a was to the lift, like at Williams. Once, Jim Leedy and I motored from KRLD to Mt. Rainier in his Taifun to get to the wave lift.


The Williams case is one I considered before choosing the Jeta. On the map, it
looks like about 20 NM the to hills to the west. Most electric gliders have that
much range; eg, the Gp15 Jeta with the large battery could launch, motor the 20
miles, and still have about 55-60 NM range left. The small battery would only have
30-35 nn range left, though. The AS34 would have about 45 NM range left after
motoring from Williams to the hills; the miniLak FES also about 45 NM, maybe more.

Everyone knows the gasoline powered self-launchers all have powered ranges that
exceed the best electric range, but that is irrelevant for most of the people
buying an electric glider. They want to eliminate the tow and dramatically
increase their chances of getting home, and the electric glider gives them what
they want. If you dream of flights that require hours of power, or airfields that
don't have electricity, you must stay with gasoline.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


The launch has to be 4kft, min and the distance is more like 22nm. And what if the lift is further into the hills? And what if you have a headwind? And if you don't connect you don't have a glide back to Williams. The same thing goes for Minden. The margins are either non-existent or too thin for my tastes. Of course, you could always get a tow. In fact, save the cost of a FES and fly a pure glider.

Tom
  #99  
Old April 14th 20, 05:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 4
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 9:37:18 AM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.


There are 4 Electro's in the USA and about a dozen Rotax powered. I've flown a Rotax-powered one for about 10 years, but only have a few flights in an Electro. It flies like an older generation, lightly loaded 15 meter ship.. Lots of fun soaring, but not for unhandicapped competition or records.

The company's objective in designing the electric version was to have it achieve the same performance, at the same price, as the gas powered. I understand that the electric will climb slightly faster (bigger prop, IIRC), and the price probably isn't that much more than the Rotax version. I think the empty weight is similar, though the batteries consume a lot of space.

But the run time, like all of the electrics, is the big difference. I think Pipistrel used to advertise 6,000' of climb on a charge, though that was a while back and they probably have better numbers today. (The Rotax powered version has a max fuel capacity of something like 14 gallons (with dual tanks). I have only the single tank configuration, but have never had "range anxiety" with probably over an hour of run time, should it be needed. (Typical flight has 5-7 minutes for initial launch and another 5-10 minutes of run time if I need a relight, and I would guess that the Electros have a similar profile.))

The solar trailer for the Electro is quite cool. You can park at an unelectrified gliderport, and the sun charges the battery array in the trailer. Then you hook-up your Taurus overnight and recharge the on-board batteries. Rinse and repeat.

Pipistrel has a big lead over others in actual, in-the-field application and improvements vs. projected and theoretical systems. If they elected to market their systems in a higher-performance sailplane I think they would have a superior product.
  #100  
Old April 14th 20, 06:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Posts: 1,439
Default Best option for electric self starting glider

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 9:49:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 9:37:18 AM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Any opinions on the Taurus Electro? Side-by-side, pylon, self-launch, trailer option for solar array charging, etc. They claim the profile of the cockpit/fuselage acts like a lifting body.


There are 4 Electro's in the USA and about a dozen Rotax powered. I've flown a Rotax-powered one for about 10 years, but only have a few flights in an Electro. It flies like an older generation, lightly loaded 15 meter ship. Lots of fun soaring, but not for unhandicapped competition or records.

The company's objective in designing the electric version was to have it achieve the same performance, at the same price, as the gas powered. I understand that the electric will climb slightly faster (bigger prop, IIRC), and the price probably isn't that much more than the Rotax version. I think the empty weight is similar, though the batteries consume a lot of space.

But the run time, like all of the electrics, is the big difference. I think Pipistrel used to advertise 6,000' of climb on a charge, though that was a while back and they probably have better numbers today. (The Rotax powered version has a max fuel capacity of something like 14 gallons (with dual tanks). I have only the single tank configuration, but have never had "range anxiety" with probably over an hour of run time, should it be needed. (Typical flight has 5-7 minutes for initial launch and another 5-10 minutes of run time if I need a relight, and I would guess that the Electros have a similar profile.))

The solar trailer for the Electro is quite cool. You can park at an unelectrified gliderport, and the sun charges the battery array in the trailer. Then you hook-up your Taurus overnight and recharge the on-board batteries. Rinse and repeat.

Pipistrel has a big lead over others in actual, in-the-field application and improvements vs. projected and theoretical systems. If they elected to market their systems in a higher-performance sailplane I think they would have a superior product.


For VFR cross country flight the FAA requires you to have a 30 minute fuel reserve. Note that electric gliders don't even have 30 minutes of run time, let alone a reserve. All this discussion assumes running the battery totally flat - no reserve WHATSOEVER and perfect battery performance (no degradation for temperature or age). This is an unacceptable level of even token, lip-service safety. GIVE ME A BREAK!

Tom
 




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