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Future Club Training Gliders
On Sep 15, 6:54*am, John Smith wrote:
Am 15.09.10 01:13, schrieb John Cochrane: I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club (chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to fly and teach in. I don't understand why someone would still buy an ASK21 today when you can get a DG1000 or a Duo which offer *much* more performance for little more money. And yes, they are perfectly suited for primary training. I know they can and credit to places that are doing this, but I think there is still a place for a slightly more "agricultural" primary trainer. Especially if there is a training fleet to keep busy with primary instruction. You can learn to fly power in a Bonanza but a C172 with fixed gear and simpler systems is less likely to get a pilot in trouble. I know you can get club versions of the DG-1000, with fixed gear etc, but by the time I had a DG-1000 I'd want the retract version and use it more XC. It is unfortunate the some operations may end up in a very tough place with the L13 issue and it comes at a time when the economy is bad. Trying to contain costs is a good goal, but I worry that a lot of clubs/operations in the USA are operating "on the wrong side of the curve". i.e. focus on driving down to a minial cost - not working on attracting people who are likely to stay around and fly XC, buy their own gliders, etc. - that is helped by having a more modern training fleet and focus on XC capable ships and XC instruction/mentoring to get people going. I look at what Morgan is doing at Avenal by having his Duo there and that seems to be driving a lot more interest/activity in XC soaring by pilots there. Or at Williams where you have sixteen year old line-boys working their hours off and getting started flying XC in ASW-24s. $100k divided by 20 people is $5k each. Scale for the right amount, but even in tough financial times I'd still hope that type of funding makes it possible to raise a pool to purchase a glass trainer. I know it is not going to be possible everywhere. BTW I have nothing against older gliders, many of them are just *beautiful* and I'm glad to see them being flown and looked after. Darryl |
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Future Club Training Gliders
On Sep 15, 2:54*pm, John Smith wrote:
Am 15.09.10 01:13, schrieb John Cochrane: I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club (chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to fly and teach in. I don't understand why someone would still buy an ASK21 today when you can get a DG1000 or a Duo which offer *much* more performance for little more money. And yes, they are perfectly suited for primary training. Lasham bought a couple of DG1000s as all round trainers. However in practice they are mostly only used for advanced cross-country training. From a basic instructional point of view they are too complicated (tail weights etc), too difficult to get in and out of, and have awful ground handling (we have the 2 wheel version - the tail weights a ton). They spin rather too well and lose a lot of height in the process. We also have a couple of K21s which are great general purpose gliders, but as basic trainers they are, if anything, too docile and easy to fly, and won't spin with a normal weight male student in the front seat. We still use ancient although slightly updated K13s for most basic training. They do everything tolerably well, although more performance would be nice. Derek C |
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Future Club Training Gliders
In article
, bildan wrote: On Sep 14, 12:44*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote: On Sep 14, 9:47*am, RN wrote: The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we will need. For a training on a budget, it's really hard to beat a Ka-13 or Ka-7, except that they have fairly small cockpits. We sold off our Ka-7 because about half the folks who came to us for training just could not fit their legs under the panel and/or were too heavy. Still, that Ka-7 soldiers on in a commercial training operation today! |
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Future Club Training Gliders
On Sep 14, 10:47*am, RN wrote:
The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we will need. We would be very interested in other club's experience with other trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future. Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost . John Texas Soaring Association near Dallas bought three ASK-21s, brand new. Club instructors considered several other options, and chose the 21s over the PW-6 and others. We like them a lot, although they are hard to spin without putting the spin ballast on the tail. They get a lot of use and are holding up well. Previously, we had the Puchacz and the Grobs. Both were satisfactory, but the Puchacz was a better training aircraft. Downside to the Puchacz is that it is hard to repair when something breaks on it and parts are damn near impossible to find in the US. Phil Umphres |
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Future Club Training Gliders
"tienshanman" wrote in message ... snip As someone who not long ago finished glider training Finished glider training? I've got my Silver C and still do training from time to time. You never, ever finish learning in this game. |
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Future Club Training Gliders
On Sep 17, 12:18*am, tienshanman tienshanman.
wrote: RN;740605 Wrote: The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we will need. We would be very interested in other club's experience with other trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future. Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost . John As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers. Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and *was happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away from a retirement home. -- tienshanman actually, those pilots "one step away from a retirement home" usually fly the newest hottest gliders. cruel irony? perhaps.............all those poor hot chicks out there have to reconsider their options eh? Brad |
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Future Club Training Gliders
On Sep 17, 9:24*am, Brad wrote:
On Sep 17, 12:18*am, tienshanman tienshanman. wrote: RN;740605 Wrote: The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we will need. We would be very interested in other club's experience with other trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future. Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost .. John As someone who not long ago finished glider training I can add this: I looked long and hard for an operation that did not use Schweizers. Reason: they are ugly & uncomfortable and just did not fit my idea what soaring is all about. Finally I found a place with a G103 and *was happy. If you want to attract people, especially young people you'd better get some hot looking trainers, oh, and preferably some hot looking women. Otherwise you're dead in the water.....and continue projecting the imagine of soaring as an activity for those one step away from a retirement home. -- tienshanman actually, those pilots "one step away from a retirement home" usually fly the newest hottest gliders. cruel irony? perhaps.............all those poor hot chicks out there have to reconsider their options eh? Brad Nope you already missed them, they are hanging out with the cool hot paraglider guys. Darryl |
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