It actually happened today!! Vacuum failure in IMC.

I'd fly an ILS over a GPS any day if I was PP. I WOULD use the GPS to give
me a better indication of the heading as opposed to the compass, but why
give up the lower minimums and greater accuracy offered by an ILS,

Because the GPS approach is easier to fly - less chance of going to full-scale
deflection.

Barry wrote:

I'd fly an ILS over a GPS any day if I was PP. I WOULD use the GPS to
give me a better indication of the heading as opposed to the compass, but
why give up the lower minimums and greater accuracy offered by an ILS,

Because the GPS approach is easier to fly - less chance of going to
full-scale deflection.

That's not necessarily correct. How many step-downs are there vs. how many
can you keep in your head? Of course, there can be step-downs to the GS
intercept on an ILS, but none after that (when the localizer is getting
tight).

Personally, I find an ILS to be the easiest type of approach in general
because of its reduced workload. And since one can still cheat with the
GPS providing track and track error, it would be relatively easy to hold
the needle centered (easier still with a WAAS-capable unit, of course {8^).

- Andrew

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:52:20 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

A Lieberman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:12:28 -0700, wrote:


Also, the 7700 squawk really wakes up the system to work in your behalf.
;-)


This is an understatement. 7700 will light up ATC systems.

But if you are already squawking and talking, what is the point of using
7700?

Matt,

In my case, I wasn't using flight following and was not talking to anybody.

I was moseying on down to L31 when the cylinder exhaust valve bit the dust.
I went to 121.5 and squawked 7700 simultaneously once I decided I had an
emergency in my hands so I could light up the ATC system just in case I had
to make an off airport landing.

Allen

Barry wrote:
I'd fly an ILS over a GPS any day if I was PP. I WOULD use the GPS to give
me a better indication of the heading as opposed to the compass, but why
give up the lower minimums and greater accuracy offered by an ILS,


Because the GPS approach is easier to fly - less chance of going to full-scale
deflection.

If you aren't proficient enough to fly an ILS to minimums on partial
panel, then you probably shouldn't fly in IMC until you get some
refresher instruction. I don't know what GPS you use, but the old King
89B I use is a lot harder to set up for an approach than is the ILS. If
I was flying partial panel, I'd much rather twist in a frequency, ID and
be done, than have to pull up the airport from the active page, dial
down to the proper approach, load it up, and then be sure I remembered
to select OBS mode during vectors, then LEG more before the FAF, watch
all of the intermediate descent altitudes, etc. The ILS is just so much
simpler and it is more accurate to boot (I know, this is being changed).

I still don't consider GPS approaches to be progress over the good old
ILS and even VOR approaches. I realize the advantage of having
approaches at airports that had none before, and that is certainly a big
advantage. I just wish the engineers at King were pilots! I'm an
engineer, so I feel I can say this ... the KLN-89B definitely seems to
have been designed by an engineer and for an engineer, not by a pilot
and for a pilot.

I understand the new glass displays are much improved in user
friendliness, but I've yet to have the good fortune to fly behind one.


Matt

"skym" wrote in message
ups.com...
Departed Asheville NC today into IMC enroute to Columbia SC. Well into
IMC and about 6500 MSL the DG started to slowly just start rotating and
the AI started to lean over. Backup vacuum-no help. I couldn't
believe this was happening in IMC; I only fly it about 5% of the time.
Columbia was just a bit above minimums. I was not prepared to try an
ILS with no operative DG, and most of the GPS approaches at CAE want a
WAAS capable GPS, which my G430 isn't.
Bit the bullet and dialed 7700 and declared an emergency. Asheville
approach offered a no-gyro radar directed approach back into AV which I
declined, since the mountainous terrain was not an attractive option in
this situation, at least to me (even though I live in Montana). They
gave me vectors to Charlotte, at my request, since it had similar
weather, but friendlier terrain. As I was descended into CLT I saw a
huge hole and an airport just below. Told CLT approach I saw an
airport and could descend visually to it, and since I seem to have read
somewhere that it is best just to get on the ground ASAP in this type
of situation, said that I just wanted to land there. They gave me the
name and ID of the airport (Shelby NC), and I landed without incident.
Lessons learned:

1. Keep up on your partial panel skills. Do not underestimate the
utility of the turn coordinator (or needle/ball).
2. Carry something to cover the failed instruments; they will distract
you. (Fortunately, I had covers.)
3. An STEC A/P which runs on the TC, rather than the vacuum
instruments, is the way to go.
4. If you have a good a/p and coupled GPS, they can fill in very well.
5. Don't be afraid to declare an emergency, and accept their help.
ATC at CAE, Greer (sp?) approach, and CLT approach were ultra
professional and very helpful.

I'm not a highly experienced instr pilot, but stuck with what I've been
trained to do, kept cool (I hope/think), and "dealt with it".
Now, for the paperwork.


I've dialed 7700 atleast 10 times in the last 2400 hours of flying and after
you've done it once, it's becomes much less of a big deal.

Glad everything worked out for you.

I've dialed 7700 atleast 10 times in the last 2400 hours of flying and
after you've done it once, it's becomes much less of a big deal.

Glad everything worked out for you.

You've had an emergency averaging once every 240 hours????

Yea, I debated in my mind whether to do ILS or GPS. I'm more familiar
with ILS, but opted to put all my nav info on the one instrument (GPS)
since I was already using it for course guidance. It seemed like it
would be easier at a time that I needed simplicity in my life, and just
as safe. On another occasion I might make a different decision.
However, I made the decision and deceided to stick with it.

John Doe wrote:



I've dialed 7700 atleast 10 times in the last 2400 hours of flying and after
you've done it once, it's becomes much less of a big deal.

You need a better mechanic.

Newps wrote:



John Doe wrote:



I've dialed 7700 atleast 10 times in the last 2400 hours of flying and
after you've done it once, it's becomes much less of a big deal.


You need a better mechanic.

Or a better pilot.

Matt

I know the Mid-Co. is more money. I left out and simple OR. But that's
also why I'd like to get pireps on the two systems.

Are there tumble-free AIs?

The Sporty's does have a cage button but I think having one could prevent a
tumble in the 1st place. BTW: My avionics shop says they add a toggle
switch for the unit so you don't have to use it all the time in VMC. Also,
they say the Mid-Cont. unit there most popular upgrade.

If George is, like most (all?) S-Tec units, rate-based then it'll survive
a
vacuum failure in NAV mode. HDG mode, of course, will be unavailable
(unless you want to circle with the DG {8^).

Yes, S-Tec's w/ function w/o vacuum/pressure. Big plus. My Bo' came w/ a
KFC-200, so I'm stuck w/ it until it dies (hopefully w/ ample warning)

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Victor J. Osborne, Jr. wrote:


That's why I'm looking at the Mid-Continent Sporty's electric AI
replacement T/C.

And what will you do if that AI tumbles for some reason in IMC? That's
been
my big concern about replacing the TC with an AI, and the relevent AC
doesn't even refer to that particular vulnerability.

Are there tumble-free AIs?

BTW, the Sporty's unit is not the Mid-continental; it's a Castle-something
(IIRC). The Mid-continental is more expensive than the Sporty's.

[...]
Keep in mind that even George w/ bail on you if the vacuum/pressure goes.
(S-Tec aside)

If George is, like most (all?) S-Tec units, rate-based then it'll survive
a
vacuum failure in NAV mode. HDG mode, of course, will be unavailable
(unless you want to circle with the DG {8^).

Or is my understanding incorrect?

- Andrew