Fun weekend buying an Arrow (long)

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Both? Must be talking about Cessna.

Maule.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Both? Must be talking about Cessna.


Navions only has a "ON (both) - OFF" selector (unless they have optional
tanks).

Mike Spera wrote in message ...
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on". The theory being that takeoff is not the time to "test"
whether a tank you just switched to is blocked, the fuel valve
malfunctioned, a tank is empty (cuz you forgot to check it), a tank you
just switched to is full of water, etc.

Pretty poor theory. It's a haphazardway of avoiding actually managing
your fuel. I'm more of a measure, calculate type of guy myself. I keep
a log of the tanks in flight in my Mooney (I don't have a "both"
selector).
I also don't buy into the "fill the tanks before take off" B.S. You
should know how much fuel you need and how much extra you'll need. I
just don't see putting 8 hours of fuel in my Mooney and pushing around
like an over stuffed whale.
All this reminds me of the Bonanza pilot who declared a fuel emergency
only to discover he had another 3 hours of fuel. He always put 5 hours
in it, but never let it go below 2 hours, he burned 12gal/hr but
caluclated it as 15 gal/hr, etc, etc. All this "extra safety buffer"
just meant he had NO idea how much fuel he had.


-Robert, CFI

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
Mike Spera wrote in message
...
One well known aviation university teaches you to "fly out on the tank
you flew in on". The theory being that takeoff is not the time to "test"
whether a tank you just switched to is blocked, the fuel valve
malfunctioned, a tank is empty (cuz you forgot to check it), a tank you
just switched to is full of water, etc.

Pretty poor theory. It's a haphazardway of avoiding actually managing
your fuel. I'm more of a measure, calculate type of guy myself. I keep
a log of the tanks in flight in my Mooney (I don't have a "both"
selector).
I also don't buy into the "fill the tanks before take off" B.S. You
should know how much fuel you need and how much extra you'll need. I
just don't see putting 8 hours of fuel in my Mooney and pushing around
like an over stuffed whale.
All this reminds me of the Bonanza pilot who declared a fuel emergency
only to discover he had another 3 hours of fuel. He always put 5 hours
in it, but never let it go below 2 hours, he burned 12gal/hr but
caluclated it as 15 gal/hr, etc, etc. All this "extra safety buffer"
just meant he had NO idea how much fuel he had.

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182044-1.html
August 9, 1998

Pelican's Perch #7:
Run That Fuel Tank Dry!

AVweb's John Deakin takes aim at yet another OWT (Old Wive's Tale). While
running a fuel tank dry in your recip powered plane may serve to increase
your heart rate, John explains why it's not such a bad thing at all, and it
is probably a really good idea for most of us. In fact, John explains why
it's one of the first things you ought to do with a new plane and how it
could save your life someday.

Matt Barrow wrote:
AVweb's John Deakin takes aim at yet another OWT (Old Wive's Tale). While
running a fuel tank dry in your recip powered plane may serve to increase
your heart rate, John explains why it's not such a bad thing at all, and it
is probably a really good idea for most of us. In fact, John explains why
it's one of the first things you ought to do with a new plane and how it
could save your life someday.


Flying the old Cherokee Six with four fuel tanks, you'd end up with almost 10
gallons unusable if you didn't run a tank dry occasionally. I tried to never
let it happen with passengers on board. Screwed up once though... probably
scared the hell out of them though nobody said anything about it once I'd
explained what had happened. Mea culpa.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
Matt Barrow wrote:
AVweb's John Deakin takes aim at yet another OWT (Old Wive's Tale). While
running a fuel tank dry in your recip powered plane may serve to increase
your heart rate, John explains why it's not such a bad thing at all, and
it
is probably a really good idea for most of us. In fact, John explains why
it's one of the first things you ought to do with a new plane and how it
could save your life someday.


Flying the old Cherokee Six with four fuel tanks, you'd end up with almost
10 gallons unusable if you didn't run a tank dry occasionally. I tried to
never let it happen with passengers on board. Screwed up once though...
probably scared the hell out of them though nobody said anything about it
once I'd explained what had happened. Mea culpa.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

I remember one time in a light twin. I decided to run the auxilliary tanks
dry before returning to the mains so that I would have all of my remaining
fuel in the mains for the approach and landing. I flew an hour on the mains
to get some dump space for the overflow from the injectors and then switched
to the aux tanks. After churning along on the auxs for some little time the
right engine quit. As I was reaching for the fuel selector to switch it
back to the main the left engine quit. The sudden total cessation of engine
noise in midtrip got my passengers rather upset until I got them both making
appropriate noises again and explained to them what had happened and why I
did it that way. :-) Mea Maxima Culpa ...

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )



VE

Highflyer wrote:
I remember one time in a light twin. I decided to run the auxilliary tanks
dry before returning to the mains so that I would have all of my remaining
fuel in the mains for the approach and landing. I flew an hour on the mains
to get some dump space for the overflow from the injectors and then switched
to the aux tanks. After churning along on the auxs for some little time the
right engine quit. As I was reaching for the fuel selector to switch it
back to the main the left engine quit. The sudden total cessation of engine
noise in midtrip got my passengers rather upset until I got them both making
appropriate noises again and explained to them what had happened and why I
did it that way. :-) Mea Maxima Culpa ...


I had essentially the same thing happen to me one night coming back from
Cleveland in a C-402. I'd been up for almost 24 hours and was exhausted (the
flight had been scheduled for early the previous morning, cancelled and then
rescheduled as I was getting ready for bed). I had flown all night in a mix of
clouds, occasional icing, and VFR. I was moving auto parts from Shelby, NC to
CLE, then back to CLT (my home base). No passengers; just me.

I took off from Cleveland IFR and my attitude indicator croaked. There was
another one on the copilot's side but I was on top before long so it was no big
deal. I settled down to cruise on the mains. After an hour of hand flying, I
switched over to the auxillary tanks. Then I fell asleep. I woke up to some
yaw and less noise... the left engine had quit! I reached over to switch tanks
and hit the boost pump to get a restart. Then the other one quit before I could
switch that tank. Holy ****! That got my attention. I switched tanks on the
right engine and hit that boost pump. By that time the left engine started. A
moment later the right one came back. I remember complimenting myself on the
accuracy of my fuel leaning.

Whew! I swore to God I'd never fall asleep again while flying. I broke my
promise twice before completing that flight.

What do they say? Any flight that doesn't end up on the 11 o'clock news
couldn't have been all that bad. It wasn't that great though... I fought 70
knot headwinds up to Cleveland (rode home at mach two), suffered a right brake
failure, failed attitude indicator, got to play with ice, had the company credit
card denied twice (at Charlie West and Cleveland), and ran the tanks dry. I
really prefer the dull life.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Whew! I swore to God I'd never fall asleep again while flying. I
broke my
promise twice before completing that flight.


I read many years ago about a corporate pilot who was repositioning a
plane (big twin) from Indiana to Illinois for a morning flight. He'd
been flying all day and was tired. He fell asleep enroute and woke up
just as the last engine died and the sun was coming up. He made a
successful deadstick on a dirt road. When a farmer came along in a
truck, he asked where he was. He was in New Mexico. I would have
loved to have been a fly on the wall when that guy called his boss and
told him the morning flight would be a little late :-))

Weren't there a couple of snoozing airline pilots on a red-eye that
overshot L.A. and were finally awakened well out over the Pacific? I
seem to recall reading about that one in the paper sometime in the 90s.


Tired pilots with autopilots can be a bad combo :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote

Tired pilots with autopilots can be a bad combo :-)

Tired pilots withOUT autopilots could be a dead combo. ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"John Galban" wrote

Tired pilots with autopilots can be a bad combo :-)

Tired pilots withOUT autopilots could be a dead combo. ;-)

That depends. I'll admit to having been a bit tired on a few long
haul flights across the country. Due to the (almost constantly)
unbalanced fuel load in my Cherokee, inattention to the controls would
cause the plane to roll left or right almost immediately. That'll get
your attention and adrenaline going. Usually long enough to land for
some fuel and a nap :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)