Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

Well....For the past three days, I have tried to reply to the posts in this
thread only to have my posts disappear completely. Trying one more time.

To Hatunen...There is no such thing as an ATR (Airline Transport Rating) on
a Commercial Pilot Certificate any more and hasn't been for about the past
50 years. Just as the Private and Commercial Certificates, the ATP is now a
stand-alone certificate with its own ratings.

Even the possesion of an ATP certificate is no guarantee that the holder
has any knowledge of transport category aircraft what-so-ever. My original
ATP flight test was flown in a Piper Cherokee 140. 1970 as I recall.

Hatunen wrote....
It's quite possible that one could have one's own private jet and
fly it with a private license. One would have to have an
endorsement for the jet, however. don't confuse flying a jet with
flying an airliner in airline service, which requires an ATR.

Again.... here in the USofA, there is no such thing as a "Pilot License"
and the abrieviation PPL has no meaning .
They are all "certificates", and in the English language, there is a huge
difference between the words "License" and "Certificate". Also....one is
not endorsed (something a Flight Instructor can do), for a jet aircraft,
but rather is "type-rated" for specific types of jet aircraft and that must
be done by an FAA Inspector or an FAA Authorized Examiner.

Atlieb wrote...
So to expand on A's question, without that recognition, can the
military pilot fly a C152 for civilian purposes or do are they
required to complete the above form and get a FAA certificate issued
by the FAA to fly in the patch?

A military pilot must obtain an FAA certificate before being allowed to
serve as pilot-in-command in an "N" registered aircraft. Passing a simple
20 question exam on the FAA Regs that might be different is all that is
required....plus , of course, an FAA medical certificate. The pilot will
have the same category and class ratings on a Commercial Certificate as the
aircraft that he has flown in the military during the previous 12 months.

Many of my fellow pilots returning from Vietnam and joining PanAm at the
same time as I did, had only flown the F-4 Phantom and could only obtain a
Commercial-MultiEngine Land-Cenertline Thrust certificate. Could not even
fly a "Cessna 152" around the patch.

Now...for all of those of you who constantly find fault with the posts by
Mxsmanic....particularly Atlieb.

In most of these battles of the words, Mxsmanic almost always demonstrates
that he has more knowledge of the subject than do his detractors. He
certainly studies the subjects more than his detractors.
I have yet seen him try to tell us how to land an airplane....most of his
subjects deal with "human factors" or the machine itself, both of which are
easily learned/taught from the book.

I find Atlieb to be far more annoying than Mxsmanic and his motive baffles
me. With just a Private Pilot Certificate, he is certainly no "Ace-of-the-
base". In the over 15 years that I have been here on RAP, I have noticed
that there are two things that make a seemingly otherwise normal pilot
suddenly take it upon himself to tell the rest of us how to fly....first,
he buys an airplane and now....! he knows it all, and...proceeds to tell us
so. Or secondly... he becomes a flight instructor and god help us now, he
who resides at the bottom of the food chain is going to save the world of
aviation.... remember Yari, the Russian here in New York about 6-8 years
ago?

Yes, I don't understand Masmanic's reasons for stirring the pot either. He
can simply say that he saw a yellow airplane today and either Atlieb or Jim
will jump in and tell everyone that since Mxsmanic isn't a pilot, he really
can't be relied upon to really know that it was actually an airplane or a
boat. And as I understand it...JIm isn't a certificated pilot either. Jim
and Atlieb don't bother to take the time to study the issue and rebute
Mxsmanic's position, they just bore us time and time again with "he's not a
qualified pilot". From my perspective, I hardly consider them to be all
that qualified either.

Aside from my flying duties in the Navy....S-2F, P-2V, and P-3B and in the
airline industry.....B-727, B-707, and L-188, I have been a Flight/Ground
Instructor for 40 years. Additional duties included B-727/B-707
Flight/Simulator Instrtuctor/Check Airman, Manager-Flight Crew Training,
Chief Pilot, and finally, Director of Flight Operations.

These positions required me to sit in judgement of would be airline pilots
and make the hiring decision after just a 15-20 first interview sesion.

Atlieb doesn't get called back for a second chance.

Bob Moore

On Jun 21, 7:30*pm, Bob Moore wrote:

I find Atlieb to be far more annoying than Mxsmanic and his motive baffles
me. With just a Private Pilot Certificate, he is certainly no "Ace-of-the-
base". I

And I do not represent myself as such either. I am learning everyday
I wake up. No, I am not a CFI, no I do not present myself as one.
Pretty straight forward I'd think.

My motive is to point out Mx doesn't know what the real world is and
MSFS is not the real world. He words his post in first person like he
is flying a plane, are very misguided and outright lies. I use MSFS
and fly, and am very qualified to distinguish the difference between
the two. If you believe that MSFS replicates flying a real plane as
he pretends it to be, then you would be just as bad as him.

And don't worry, I'm retired, no need for call backs on second
interviews :-))))

Not trying to impress you, but my goal is to be sure the record is
straight with regards to Mx and his simulated flying.

Bob Moore writes:

They are all "certificates", and in the English language, there is a huge
difference between the words "License" and "Certificate".

In this context, it's a wash; I don't know why people argue about it. Either
term is fine. If there were "pilot licenses" that were distinct as credentials
from "pilot certificates," then yes, the words would make a difference--but
there's only one credential, so you can call it a license or a certificate, as
you please.

In general English, a certificate _attests_ to something, while a license
_permits_ something. A certificate may be a license, and a license is often a
certificate. So a pilot certificate and a pilot license are just different
ways of looking at the same credential.

The FAA currently seems to prefer "certificate" over "license."

In contrast, a "rating" is indeed something distinct--a separate type of
credential that is not synonymous with a certificate--so it's important to use
that term correctly.

Bob Moore wrote:
Well....For the past three days, I have tried to reply to the posts in
this thread only to have my posts disappear completely. Trying one
more time.

I see this one.

either. He can simply say that he saw a yellow airplane today and
either Atlieb or Jim will jump in and tell everyone that since
Mxsmanic isn't a pilot, he really can't be relied upon to really know
that it was actually an airplane or a boat. And as I understand
it...JIm isn't a certificated pilot either.

Jim is a common name, so be sure to include a last name or handle when
delivering those sermons, padre. ;-)

Jim Logajan wrote
Jim is a common name, so be sure to include a last name or handle when
delivering those sermons, padre. ;-)

And I think that we all understand that I was referring to the N.C. Jim.
Sorry about the confusion.

Bob

"Bob Moore" wrote

And I think that we all understand that I was referring to the N.C. Jim.
Sorry about the confusion.

I have tried to keep my comments to a minnimum, and I will try to ignore the
idiot even more in the future.
--
Jim in NC