CFI question

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote
Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

Sorry Rocky.....I don't buy into that method. My training programs are
intensive...not me. I'm there to help the student beat the program.
Profanity is out of the question. Not one of my Naval Aviator instructors
at Pensacola ever resorted to the use of profanity, the old "Officer and
Gentleman" routine that an ex-Drill Sargent might not understand.

After 9 years as a Naval Aviator with combat time in Vietnam, I then spent
25 year as a B-707/B-727 airline pilot with probably 10 years spent as an
FAA designated Instructor Pilot, Manager of Flightcrew Training, Chief Pilot,
and a stint as Director of Operations.

I have been a civilian flight instructor for 38 years with a 100% pass rate
with not one Private Pilot student requiring more than 50 hours of training
to acquire an airman certificate.

You really don't have to curse and swear, you know, your looks are mean
enough.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

On Sep 12, 1:23*pm, Robert Moore wrote:
"Ol Shy & Bashful" *wrote

Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

Sorry Rocky.....I don't buy into that method. My training programs are
intensive...not me. *I'm there to help the student beat the program.
Profanity is out of the question. Not one of my Naval Aviator instructors
at Pensacola ever resorted to the use of profanity, the old "Officer and
Gentleman" routine that an ex-Drill Sargent might not understand.

After 9 years as a Naval Aviator with combat time in Vietnam, I then spent
25 year as a B-707/B-727 airline pilot with probably 10 years spent as an
FAA designated Instructor Pilot, Manager of Flightcrew Training, Chief Pilot,
and a stint as Director of Operations.

I have been a civilian flight instructor for 38 years with a 100% pass rate
with not one Private Pilot student requiring more than 50 hours of training
to acquire an airman certificate.

You really don't have to curse and swear, you know, your looks are mean
enough. * * *

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

Hey Bob
You know, I have really enjoyed your posts over the years and you are
a delight and a real pro. It all boils down to individual techniques.
I know guys who never raise their voice and are really scary. I know
guys who are really tough and really religious who never use profanity
except on rare occasions. All of them are respected and proficient.
It just works for me and it appears, expected? I'll ammend my
presentation according to the student and it seems to work fine. Isn't
that what being a teacher is all about? Teaching effectively?
I don't want to teach a student to beat the program. I want my
students to understand what they are trying to do within the program
and become proficient aviators. Thinking pilots rather than, robots.
My rationalization being, many years back (late 60's), I was focused
on autorotations and didn't hear anything my instructor said. After
that and a discussion, my personal technique became one of not letting
the student not hear me! Of course I like to think it is more refined
than that now Still, my students frequently tell me thay can still
hear me "chirping" in their ears while they are flying and staying
ahead of the events.
My son is just over 2 yrs old and flexing his new muscles and finding
his place in the world. I have to smack his little butt to let him
know when he reached the particular limit. Then he crawls into my lap,
wipes away his tears, grins at me and says "My Dadda"
Thats when it takes discipline to maintain ......... ggg
Best Professional and Personal Regards
Rocky Kemp

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

I believe the scientific method says you should have tried instructing
without the profanity and see if it made any difference in your success
rate and student's perception.

On Sep 12, 2:07*pm, Jim Logajan wrote:
"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

I believe the scientific method says you should have tried instructing
without the profanity and see if it made any difference in your success
rate and student's perception.

I have. And I continue to use the most effective method for me. My
students proficiency tells the story.

On Sep 12, 2:59*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
On Sep 12, 1:23*pm, Robert Moore wrote:



"Ol Shy & Bashful" *wrote

Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

Sorry Rocky.....I don't buy into that method. My training programs are
intensive...not me. *I'm there to help the student beat the program.
Profanity is out of the question. Not one of my Naval Aviator instructors
at Pensacola ever resorted to the use of profanity, the old "Officer and
Gentleman" routine that an ex-Drill Sargent might not understand.

After 9 years as a Naval Aviator with combat time in Vietnam, I then spent
25 year as a B-707/B-727 airline pilot with probably 10 years spent as an
FAA designated Instructor Pilot, Manager of Flightcrew Training, Chief Pilot,
and a stint as Director of Operations.

I have been a civilian flight instructor for 38 years with a 100% pass rate
with not one Private Pilot student requiring more than 50 hours of training
to acquire an airman certificate.

You really don't have to curse and swear, you know, your looks are mean
enough. * * *

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

Hey Bob
You know, I have really enjoyed your posts over the years and you are
a delight and a real pro. It all boils down to individual techniques.
I know guys who never raise their voice and are really scary. I know
guys who are really tough and really religious who never use profanity
except on rare occasions. All of them are respected and proficient.
It just works for me and it appears, expected? I'll ammend my
presentation according to the student and it seems to work fine. Isn't
that what being a teacher is all about? Teaching effectively?
I don't want to teach a student to beat the program. I want my
students to understand what they are trying to do within the program
and become proficient aviators. Thinking pilots rather than, robots.
My rationalization being, many years back (late 60's), I was focused
on autorotations and didn't hear anything my instructor said. After
that and a discussion, my personal technique became one of not letting
the student not hear me! Of course I like to think it is more refined
than that now Still, my students frequently tell me thay can still
hear me "chirping" in their ears while they are flying and staying
ahead of the events.
My son is just over 2 yrs old and flexing his new muscles and finding
his place in the world. I have to smack his little butt to let him
know when he reached the particular limit. Then he crawls into my lap,
wipes away his tears, grins at me and says "My Dadda"
Thats when it takes discipline to maintain ......... ggg
Best Professional and Personal Regards
Rocky Kemp

Ol Shy, I have to do some math here. Let's see, first became a CFI in
67? It's not 2008, so that's like, let's see, carry the one -- uh, 41
years ago. CFI at say age 21? Hmm, 2 year old son? You da man!

It happens, just not often. Congratulations.

On Sep 12, 3:30*pm, a wrote:
On Sep 12, 2:59*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:





On Sep 12, 1:23*pm, Robert Moore wrote:

"Ol Shy & Bashful" *wrote

Right up front I tell students I get pretty intensive in the cockpit
up to and including profanity. Does it work for me? If you check with
all the students I've flown with they will tell you YES. Certainly I
don't go overboard with any profanity (depending on who you talk to)
but the intensity doesn't ease up.

Sorry Rocky.....I don't buy into that method. My training programs are
intensive...not me. *I'm there to help the student beat the program..
Profanity is out of the question. Not one of my Naval Aviator instructors
at Pensacola ever resorted to the use of profanity, the old "Officer and
Gentleman" routine that an ex-Drill Sargent might not understand.

After 9 years as a Naval Aviator with combat time in Vietnam, I then spent
25 year as a B-707/B-727 airline pilot with probably 10 years spent as an
FAA designated Instructor Pilot, Manager of Flightcrew Training, Chief Pilot,
and a stint as Director of Operations.

I have been a civilian flight instructor for 38 years with a 100% pass rate
with not one Private Pilot student requiring more than 50 hours of training
to acquire an airman certificate.

You really don't have to curse and swear, you know, your looks are mean
enough. * * *

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

Hey Bob
You know, I have really enjoyed your posts over the years and you are
a delight and a real pro. It all boils down to individual techniques.
I know guys who never raise their voice and are really scary. I know
guys who are really tough and really religious who never use profanity
except on rare occasions. All of them are respected and proficient.
It just works for me and it appears, expected? I'll ammend my
presentation according to the student and it seems to work fine. Isn't
that what being a teacher is all about? Teaching effectively?
I don't want to teach a student to beat the program. I want my
students to understand what they are trying to do within the program
and become proficient aviators. Thinking pilots rather than, robots.
My rationalization being, many years back (late 60's), I was focused
on autorotations and didn't hear anything my instructor said. After
that and a discussion, my personal technique became one of not letting
the student not hear me! Of course I like to think it is more refined
than that now Still, my students frequently tell me thay can still
hear me "chirping" in their ears while they are flying and staying
ahead of the events.
My son is just over 2 yrs old and flexing his new muscles and finding
his place in the world. I have to smack his little butt to let him
know when he reached the particular limit. Then he crawls into my lap,
wipes away his tears, grins at me and says "My Dadda"
Thats when it takes discipline to maintain ......... ggg
Best Professional and Personal Regards
Rocky Kemp

Ol Shy, I have to do some math here. Let's see, first became a CFI in
67? It's not 2008, so that's like, let's see, carry the one -- uh, 41
years ago. CFI at say age 21? Hmm, 2 year old son? You da man!

*It happens, just not often. Congratulations.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you. You can't begin to know how much pleasure this little man
gives me. Yep I'm up there in age and my wife is 29 years my junior.
One of those lifetime stories. He now knows how to salute and sees it
on TV with the military channel and hollers to get my attention while
he gives me a salute. Delightful to call cadence while he marches down
the hallway and a big grin. When I softly call him "Pvt Kemp" while
waking him up in the morning at 0500 and he rolls over saying "non
nonnoo nooo" and then he sits up saying "Dadda". What an absolute
delght and affirmation about what MY life is all about.
He cocks his head, holds his hand to his ear and looks around when he
hears a helicopter,and says "Sshhhhh hecopter" or something like that.
I'll take him flying shortly and hopefully with both airplane and
helicopter. He sure knows the difference.
p.s. I'm 72 and having the best time of my life.

"Tman" x@x wrote

I've had a variety of CFI's and I find that flying with a 'hardass' may
not make your day but you sure learn a lot.

But have no doubt that you can learn _just_ as much from a highly competent,
demanding instructor, with a much more gentle teaching style, too.

Like Dan said, teaching is finding out how your student learns best, and by
using a variety of techniques, you will be able to find out how your student
learns best.

I'm not surprised that a prospective military candidate does well with a
firm, demanding hand, with a bit of colorful language thrown in. The same
technique applied to a 40 year old housewife would probably not be quite
appropriate. g

Of course, an instructor can not be something he is not, and teach in a way
that he can not relate to. It would still be a surprise to me, that any
instructor could be effective and use the same exact teaching style with
_every_ student.

It has always seemed to me that the very best teachers have a gift to be
able to teach almost without thinking about what will work best for each
student. That gift combined with good command of the subject being taught
results in an effective teacher, able to maximize the learning taking place,
no matter the student, as long as the student is receptive.
--
Jim in NC