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#21
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Hero emulation
At 22:06 22 February 2018, Tom wrote:
Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight? Thanks Tom Hi Tom, Answer: nothing. Glider pilots seem to have a fascination with seeing how close they can get to the ground .. preferably with someone watching, either in person or more often these days online, which is a real problem and I think pretty unprofessional & foolish. I naively thought that gliding was more professional than this but I'm realising now that gliding has always had it's individualistic cowboy element, and more concerning is that today's juniors are being encouraged to emulate this .. and the internet is going to ensure it. I'm seriously considering giving up instructing after 17 years because I'm sick & tired of the supposed "safety culture" we bang on about endlessly here in Australia being totally undermined by this undisciplined and unnecessary "hooning" as we call it. |
#22
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Hero emulation
At 22:06 22 February 2018, Tom wrote:
Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight? Thanks Tom Hi Tom, Answer: nothing. Glider pilots seem to have a fascination with seeing how close they can get to the ground .. preferably with someone watching, either in person or more often these days online, which is a real problem and I think pretty unprofessional & foolish. I naively thought that gliding was more professional than this but I'm realising now that gliding has always had it's individualistic cowboy element, and more concerning is that today's juniors are being encouraged to emulate this .. and the internet is going to ensure it. I'm seriously considering giving up instructing after 17 years because I'm sick & tired of the supposed "safety culture" we bang on about endlessly here in Australia being totally undermined by this undisciplined and unnecessary "hooning" as we call it. |
#23
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Hero emulation
Why low passes? Well, to have fun, of course, but also because, according to some, going into ground effect some distance before the arrival line is the most efficient way to finish a competition flight.
However, according to most "mathematical minds", the energy loss incurred by having to accelerate to VNe and keep the speed at VNe until going into ground effect, can never be compensated by that ground effect. Certainly not if you still have enough energy when crossing the arrival line to pull up and do a 360 before landing. That energy is lost for the flight. You can just have fun with it, if it doesn't scare you to death - or kills you. Some years ago (2003-2004, IIRC), the British Juniors published a series of "smoking vid" DVD's that were sold as a fundraising source for them and showed some of the most crazy low passes you can imagine. I even seem to remember a low pass by an Astir CS where the belly of the glider actually touched the ground at full speed, going straight at the camera. Sure, it was fun.... But then, at the Junior World Gliding Championships at Husbands Bosworth, Leics, in August 2005, Neil Lawson, a well known glider photographer, was killed by the low passing glider he was photographing. No more "smoking vids" after that event. And the championship rules where amended to actively discourage low pass arrivals. |
#24
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Hero emulation
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 2:51:44 PM UTC+3, Stéphane Vander Veken wrote:
Why low passes? Well, to have fun, of course, but also because, according to some, going into ground effect some distance before the arrival line is the most efficient way to finish a competition flight. However, according to most "mathematical minds", the energy loss incurred by having to accelerate to VNe and keep the speed at VNe until going into ground effect, can never be compensated by that ground effect. Certainly not if you still have enough energy when crossing the arrival line to pull up and do a 360 before landing. That energy is lost for the flight. The most efficient is to climb *just* enough in the last thermal to cruise at MC=finalClimbRate and arrive at the finish line with zero altitude and land through it. However if you misjudge that and end up short then it's a very bad day, so everyone puts an extra 500 ft or 1000 ft in the bank before starting the final glide. Having done that (and wasted anything from one to five minutes more than you really needed to climbing), you can get a minute or more back by speeding up 20 or 30 km before the finish to again plan to arrive at the finish at zero altitude .. but with a much higher speed. |
#25
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Hero emulation
At 12:24 23 February 2018, Bruce Hoult wrote:
The most efficient is to climb *just* enough in the last thermal to cruise = at MC=3DfinalClimbRate and arrive at the finish line with zero altitude and= land through it. However if you misjudge that and end up short then it's a very bad day, so = everyone puts an extra 500 ft or 1000 ft in the bank before starting the fi= nal glide. Having done that (and wasted anything from one to five minutes more than yo= u really needed to climbing), you can get a minute or more back by speeding= up 20 or 30 km before the finish to again plan to arrive at the finish at = zero altitude .. but with a much higher speed. Thank you Bruce for sparing me the need to spell it out for those who have not done much competition flying. We "fudge in" extra altitude for unexpected sink along the final glide. I was once at 120 Kts, full of water, 5 miles from the finish, at 2,000' AGL (at Hobbs in the early 1980's), and even passed up a 10 Kt dust devil along the way, only to run into extreme sink and headwind over irrigated fields in the last couple of miles so that I was just barely able to make a direct rolling finish. Other times, one runs into unexpected lift along final glide and winds up with a lot of excess energy, some of which can be converted to speed points by doing a flying finish. Now, if all of the minimum finish altitudes are jacked up, and direct rolling finishes are not allowed, that is again another matter, but contrary to some people's opinions, there has been a place in competition soaring for low flying finishes. RO |
#26
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Hero emulation
On Thursday, February 22, 2018 at 2:06:50 PM UTC-8, Tom wrote:
Can I just ask a basic question here - what is the purpose of the "low pass" and how does it further or add to the flight? Thanks Tom Hi Tom: Low passes can be fun to fly and are exciting to watch. They also have potential to end up very badly. I once did a low pass 20-30 years ago at Minden and pulled up into severe down air. That was not as much fun, never done a low pass on wave day again. One must always fly within your skill set and energy is life for a glider pilot. One burns a bit of energy in a low pass so you had better know what you are doing. |
#27
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Hero emulation
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 10:21:40 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I once did a low pass 20-30 years ago at Minden and pulled up into severe down air. That was not as much fun, never done a low pass on wave day again. This reminds me of the millions of people that have found out the hard way; that having intercourse may result in pregnancy. |
#28
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Hero emulation
This reminds me of the millions of people that have found out the hard way; that having intercourse may result in pregnancy.
Said another way, having to explain why a pilot would do a low pass that wasn't necessary for landing is like having to explain why someone would have sex for reasons other than procreation. It's fun. It's exciting. It feels good. So judge me. Chip Bearden |
#29
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Hero emulation
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 9:44:58 AM UTC-8, Chip Bearden wrote:
This reminds me of the millions of people that have found out the hard way; that having intercourse may result in pregnancy. Said another way, having to explain why a pilot would do a low pass that wasn't necessary for landing is like having to explain why someone would have sex for reasons other than procreation. It's fun. It's exciting. It feels good. So judge me. Chip Bearden Thanks Chip. That needed to be said. Craig 7Q |
#30
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Hero emulation
On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 8:10:12 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
This reminds me of the millions of people that have found out the hard way; that having intercourse may result in pregnancy. Which is a nice lead in to always have a plan B, or don't use your real name |
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