most anti-aviation city in the nation

Gentlemen,
Just got off the phone.

First call received was from Councilman Ray's executive assistant.
We had a nice conversation. As suspected, the ordinance is the result
of a protracted problem with a single individual, a Mr. Kraut of
Mayapple Rd in Jacksonville. I did not debate the wisdom of a sweeping
ordinance to address a single idiot. My goal was to gather information
and get a handle on the feelings behind the actions. My impression is
that Mr. Kraut has handed aircraft builders an uphill battle.

Second call was mine, to Randy Hansen at EAA HQ. I've passed along
all I know about the problem. Randy was already aware of the issue. A
member of EAA's Legal Advisory Council has volunteered to take up the
matter with the City Attorney, and will report, in person, at Oshkosh
next week. Any action taken will be after the Convention.

I strongly suggest that everyone be on their best behavior. Do
nothing to aggravate anyone at the City of Jacksonville, or you may
make the problem worse.

Dan Horton

Brian wrote:
I am the thorn in the side of the Jacksonville city council.

Yeah, you really showed 'em.

I had actually planned on puting all of the relevant facts on a web
site before this hit the world so that people could go there and get
the full story.

Let me help you with reality. City Councils control almost all the
airports in this United States, not to mention all the zoning. They
respond to voters (as they should), and the huge majority of voters are
not pilots.

You just put an "no aircraft fabrication" ordinance on the books in
the 15th largest city in the US. You, not them. They didn't know we
existed until you made an ass out of yourself. As an encore to your
performance, you may as well crash in a schoolyard or buzz the state
capitol.

The best thing you could do to correct the mess in Jacksonville is
to write an abject letter of apology to each and every city councilman,
not the mention the zoning inspectors. You damn sure owe you fellow
homebuilders an apology.

Dan Horton

Dan Horton wrote:

The best thing you could do to correct the mess in Jacksonville is
to write an abject letter of apology to each and every city councilman,
not the mention the zoning inspectors. You damn sure owe you fellow
homebuilders an apology.

Dan Horton


That's awful harsh, Dan. Can you relate what the Councilman's side of
the story is. Brian's side of the story seems awfully mellow, but we
haven't heard the other side.


--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

Mr Horton,

I'm not quite sure how to answer your posts concerning anti aircraft
zoning in Jacksonville. You seem to infer that you can call up and talk
to councilmen at will. You must be a powerful man since no one else in
our EAA chapter can get any type of answer from anyone. I like that you
only talked to someone who was involved in the anti aircraft side, but
you somehow seem to know both sides. I hesitate to offer another
opinion since you obviously know much more than the rest of us, but
here goes anyway.
The gentleman that you have labeled an "idiot" is an extrremely cordial
and courteous man. The rest of us have been outraged at the way he has
been treated and have had many suggestions of ways to get even. He has
not contemplated any of them. I commend his civility, as I am not sure
if I would hold up under the same aggravation.
For a year and a half he tried to get along with his neighbor, but
nothing he did satisfied her. Yes, sometimes when he needed the room he
would work on things in his front yard. Oh the humanity! Can you
imagine a country where you are free to pursue the things that make you
happy? Wait, the pursuit of happiness, I've heard of that somewhere.
Maybe Brian should move to that country.
Mr Horton I can only imagine that you are one of those people that
think the government needs to be involved in the minutiae of our life,
I do not. Though we do need laws to live by, they should be underpinned
by the live and let live motto. If we all could tell each other what we
would not allow, then no one would be able to do anything.
Brian has done nothing more than excercise his right to do something he
enjoys. By the way, he actually flew a plane he built to Oshkosh and
back from Florida. I wonder what piloting expertise you possess. I
think I'll take my chances with Brian flying in the air space above the
local schools, you I might worry about.

My apologies to your obviously superior knowledge of everything,
Milford

That's awful harsh, Dan.

Ernest, I've already apologized to the councilman's assistant on
behalf of myself and my peers (meaning you). Twice actually, once on
the phone and once in a follow-up note. In my case it is a simple case
of human relations. An unreserved apology from Brian might have real
value.

Can you relate what the Councilman's side of the story is.

I can't have the whole story and probably never will. One phone
call. The councilman's assistant was very careful with her words, as
she should be. It started as an entirely mundane case of neighbor
complaint. Brian's airplane parking spot is hard against the
neighbor's bedroom window. It also appears that he does design and
prototype manufacturing work from home, in a shed behind the house. I
don't know if that too was a city problem, but it is rarely popular
with neighbors. Brian refused to comply with the usual warnings, so
they moved to a citation under existing code and things escalated from
there. There was apparently a trip to the zoning office that included
intemporate behavior and most of the seven words, plus other exchanges,
court appearances then and upcoming, etc.

In a city the size of Jacksonville (huge), 16 councilmen don't slam
dunk new legislation just to deal with a single individual unless they
are ****ed. My point is that we (pilots and builders) are just plain
stupid if we **** off city officials. Even when wrong they hold all
the cards. The cards are called votes, and we are a tiny minority.

I've drank a lot of beer with some of the city councilmen who run my
airport. I helped a few more get elected last time around. They
return my phone calls. Maybe it is a better way?

Dan

I would challenge this regulation as in infringment on Liberty. The
concept of Liberty is recognized in the Constitution's Preamble. It
embodies the notion that men have the right to do what does not harm
the interests of others.

It would be a tough case but you might find a sympathetic judge who
would say "Noise can be regulated, unslightly messes can be regulated,
parking aircraft and airboats in a driveway can be regulated, but a man
has the right to do what he wants in his own home or in his own back
yard so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. The City
of Jacksonville has not demonstrated how a man working on an airboat or
airplane in his own home or yard infringes in any substantial way on
the rights of others. Accordingly, such acts are protected by the
Constitutional doctrine of Liberty."

If you choose to challenge the law, then go straight to federal
district court and file a simple, plain complaint alledging that the
regulation, as written, deprives you of your liberty under the
Constitution Preamble to do what you want in your own home. Stranger
cases have been won.

Mr Horton,
You seem to infer that you can call up and talk to councilmen at
will.

I can, at least here in my town, but not because I'm "powerful". I'm
not.

..no one else in our EAA chapter can get any type of answer from
anyone.

Did you establish a prior positive relationship? Did you attend the
public meetings?

..and have had many suggestions of ways to get even.

Good for him. It doesn't works well.

For a year and a half he tried to get along with his neighbor..

By chance has that neighbor lived there quite a while? Not an
assertion, just curious.

Yes, sometimes when he needed the room he would work on things in his
front yard.

Always popular.

Mr Horton I can only imagine that you are one of those people that
think the government needs to be involved in the minutiae of our
life..

Nope.

Brian has done nothing more than excercise his right to do something
he enjoys.

And the result was?.

By the way, he actually flew a plane he built to Oshkosh and back
from Florida.

My compliments.

I wonder what piloting expertise you possess.

Uhhh, I only flew mine to Oshkosh AND Florida.

My apologies to your obviously superior knowledge of everything

I respect a man who defends his friends, right or wrong. I'm serious.

Dan

any of the six public hearings?

Excuse me, five public hearings, not six.

Dan Horton

Dan Horton wrote:
Brian wrote:
I am the thorn in the side of the Jacksonville city council.

Yeah, you really showed 'em.

I had actually planned on puting all of the relevant facts on a web
site before this hit the world so that people could go there and get
the full story.

Let me help you with reality. City Councils control almost all the
airports in this United States, not to mention all the zoning. They
respond to voters (as they should), and the huge majority of voters are
not pilots.

You just put an "no aircraft fabrication" ordinance on the books in
the 15th largest city in the US. You, not them. They didn't know we
existed until you made an ass out of yourself. As an encore to your
performance, you may as well crash in a schoolyard or buzz the state
capitol.

The best thing you could do to correct the mess in Jacksonville is
to write an abject letter of apology to each and every city councilman,
not the mention the zoning inspectors. You damn sure owe you fellow
homebuilders an apology.

Dan Horton


Could you please elaborate on what, exactly, he did to draw
attention to himself before the CIty began ticketing him
for things that were NOT violations of local ordinaces?

--

FF

Dan Horton wrote:
That's awful harsh, Dan.

Ernest, I've already apologized to the councilman's assistant on
behalf of myself and my peers (meaning you).

I can apologize for myself when necessary, thank you very much.

In a city the size of Jacksonville (huge), 16 councilmen don't slam
dunk new legislation just to deal with a single individual unless they
are ****ed. My point is that we (pilots and builders) are just plain
stupid if we **** off city officials. Even when wrong they hold all
the cards. The cards are called votes, and we are a tiny minority.

I've drank a lot of beer with some of the city councilmen who run my
airport. I helped a few more get elected last time around. They
return my phone calls. Maybe it is a better way?

Dan


Some places call that the "good ol' boy network". Councilmen passing
laws impacting the 15th largest city in America, stripping possibly
millions of their rights (even if they choose not to exercise them),
because the are '****ed' is no more excusable than the use of all seven
words. Worse actually. We elect officials and expect them to act like
adults, not spoiled children. The idea of outlawing a specific
activity, because of one incident is reprehensible.

Yes, elected officials should follow the consituents wishes, but doesn't
it seem funny that they only outlawed an activity that wouldn't be
objected to except by a small minority. If building manufacturing
prototypes was the problem, why not outlaw building manufacturing
prototypes. As such, I will reiterate my original opinions and feelings
on the issue:

If I were a lawyer (and I'm not...don't even play one on TV), I would
push the equal protection under the law ideas. First, take issue with
their definition of just what is "keeping with the nature of a
residential neighborhood". And then bring up the issue of people
changing their own car's oil or airfilter, or even painting a lawn chair.

Personally, I see this as a continued trend in the transformation of the
American public from citizens to consumers. (You're only allowed to do
it if they sell a kit for it at Home Depot.)

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."