Defence plan to scrap F-111s

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...

Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

Scratched record, no intelligent thought, scratched record, no
intelligent
thought.


Poor second rate gate guard.

Playing "last word" are we? The sure sign you've bitten off more than
you
can chew.


gate guard - son you are a sad one indeed, tell us again about PTS using
RAAF Williamtown as a DZ.

Come back when you've finished Yr 10 and can comprehend English properly.
Got a clue for you, parachuting doesn't start when the plane approaches the
DZ, it starts way earlier than that. Either way, the DZ *ON-BASE* at
Amberley runs quite nicely alongside air ops. But you couldn't be expected
to know that, you're a mere Private (Rtd) with nothing more than your
infantry experiences to go on. Hardly a qualification to discuss aviation
matters. But feel free to hang around. If you take those khaki blinkers off,
you might learn something here.

--
De Oppresso Liber.

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...


Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

I see you've realised you've no cohesive argument to offer, but
can't
admit
you're outclassed and need to resort to puerile one-liners. The more
you
pursue this "line of argument" the further proof you provide how
second-rate
and outclassed you are. Thanks for coming Private (Rtd), you can go
now.

Yawn, from the king of purile drivel that is quite a compliment.

You're starting to bore me. Did you parents have any children, or just
other
failed abortions?

Gate guard, you've always bored me.

L'abortion, you so dumb its a disgrace to Australian society. I'm starting
to doubt you were ever in the army, even the infantry. You're way too stupid
even for that.

--
De Oppresso Liber.

Oh ****. This is like trying to explain quantum physics to monkeys.
(Actually, I suspect that would be easier).

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...


Actually Infantry is over sucribed, the school of cool is not that
full
these days cause there is only limited postions in the Battalions. How
often
r the Battalions being deployed? all the bloody time, how often r the
F111s
being deployed?

Obviously the finer points of Strategy are lost on you. Infantry
battalions
(especially those a "light" as ours) don't make much of a strategic
deterrent. And F111s aren't suited to peace-keeping.


again the gate guard shows his ignorance.

Seeing as I'm not a gate guard, who is being ignorant here?


The size of the Army force in Aus significantly raises the bar as to what
constitutes an effective invasion force, which consequently raises the
logistic requirements to invade Aust significantly.

That's right, you two-dimensional spastic. Australia's interests aren't
affected unless enemy troops lodge on our shore. I'd expect a lowly infantry
Private (Rtd) to think in such constrained terms. Clearly, this topic is way
out of your ability to comprehend.


Perhaps if you didn't use words that you don't understand (like
'strategy'),
you would not keep making such a fool of yourself?

Perhaps if you just spared us your "insights" and stuck to what you know
(whatever the **** that is) you wouldn't make a fool of YOURself.


Long range strike is a very useful capability for Aust,

Especially when it makes potential aggressor decide not to be aggressive in
the first place. Its little wonder you think the way you do. Its that low
level army training you've been exposed to. Sadly,, a great many army
officers display the same "understanding" until they've done a Joint Warfare
Course and learn that defending Australia doesn't start at the low-tide
mark.


but it doesn't
neccessarily need to be delivered by F-111

The only correct thing you've said all day.

and it is not the be all and end
all of deterrent.

No **** Private (Rtd) L'abortion?

--
De Oppresso Liber.

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
Oh ****. This is like trying to explain quantum physics to monkeys.
(Actually, I suspect that would be easier).



You aren't very good at this are you?


"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...


Actually Infantry is over sucribed, the school of cool is not that
full
these days cause there is only limited postions in the Battalions.
How
often
r the Battalions being deployed? all the bloody time, how often r
the
F111s
being deployed?

Obviously the finer points of Strategy are lost on you. Infantry
battalions
(especially those a "light" as ours) don't make much of a strategic
deterrent. And F111s aren't suited to peace-keeping.


again the gate guard shows his ignorance.

Seeing as I'm not a gate guard, who is being ignorant here?


Poor gate guard, BTW what was it you applied for when you joined the RAAF?,
GD after all, gate guard is as low as it goes.



The size of the Army force in Aus significantly raises the bar as to
what
constitutes an effective invasion force, which consequently raises the
logistic requirements to invade Aust significantly.

That's right, you two-dimensional spastic. Australia's interests aren't
affected unless enemy troops lodge on our shore. I'd expect a lowly
infantry
Private (Rtd) to think in such constrained terms. Clearly, this topic is
way
out of your ability to comprehend.


And how much has the F-111 done to promote Austs interests beyond our shores
in the time since we ordered them? compared to three Inf Bns over the same
time.

But then a gate guard like you has no idea at all have you?


Perhaps if you didn't use words that you don't understand (like
'strategy'),
you would not keep making such a fool of yourself?

Perhaps if you just spared us your "insights" and stuck to what you know
(whatever the **** that is) you wouldn't make a fool of YOURself.


Yawn, perhaps if you stuck to begging other dweebs in binaries NGs to tell
people you are cool and continued to promote assaulting females then you
would simply maintain all of our opinions of you?



Long range strike is a very useful capability for Aust,

Especially when it makes potential aggressor decide not to be aggressive
in
the first place.

You see the problem with that is it's religion, not fact - you can give no
examples of potential aggressors who have been deterred by the F-111, you
just have faith in it.

Wheras in WW2 the Japanese acknowledged that they lacked the ability to move
and supply the amount of troops they would need to invade Aust because of
the Army forces in situ.

Fact V religious belief.

Its little wonder you think the way you do. Its that low
level army training you've been exposed to. Sadly,, a great many army
officers display the same "understanding" until they've done a Joint
Warfare
Course and learn that defending Australia doesn't start at the low-tide
mark.

Poor gate guard, you believe that and thats important, please tell us how
many credible attackers have been deterred by Aust F-111s?


but it doesn't
neccessarily need to be delivered by F-111

The only correct thing you've said all day.

and it is not the be all and end
all of deterrent.

No **** Private (Rtd) L'abortion?


What a sad little dweeb you are.

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...

Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

Scratched record, no intelligent thought, scratched record, no
intelligent
thought.


Poor second rate gate guard.

Playing "last word" are we? The sure sign you've bitten off more than
you
can chew.


gate guard - son you are a sad one indeed, tell us again about PTS
using
RAAF Williamtown as a DZ.

Come back when you've finished Yr 10 and can comprehend English properly.
Got a clue for you, parachuting doesn't start when the plane approaches
the
DZ, it starts way earlier than that. Either way, the DZ *ON-BASE* at
Amberley runs quite nicely alongside air ops. But you couldn't be expected
to know that, you're a mere Private (Rtd) with nothing more than your
infantry experiences to go on.

You poor sad little gate guard, you suggested that Willamtown was an example
of how Amberly could operate.

Surprise, surprise you turned out to be full of ****, who'da thunk it.


Hardly a qualification to discuss aviation
matters. But feel free to hang around. If you take those khaki blinkers
off,
you might learn something here.

Gate guard, watching planes take off like the gaping yokel that you are
doesn't qualify you as the expert you pretend you are.

Remember that they don't let you play in the planes either, your past B707
tanker (fuel capacity) blunders are a great example of your stupidity vastly
exceeding your knowledge.

Folks, this is what's wrong with the ADF today. Too many tiny-minded clowns
in khaki suits "thinking". They remind me of a poem.........

The grand old Duke of York,
he had ten thousand men,
he marched them to the top of the hill,
and he marched them down again.

Our brain-dead friend who was nothing more than a lowly infantry Private
(and now, he's not even that), would have us believe that Australia's
interests are best served by having a few thousand more Privates for the
generals to march up and down Mt Stuart instead of a proper strategy to
protect Australia and her interests.

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"Graham" wrote in message
...
I agree with Tas, i'm just a digger

I won't hold it against you, but you need more than a digger's eye view
to
grasp some of this.


You need a gates eye view! lol.

Even that would be better than the pathetic views you would offer.

Here's the fact. Infantry Privates aren't taught to use their brains on such
weighty topics as geo-strategic policy and how to defend Australia and her
interest's. All you were taught was how to defend a hole in the ground on
the side of a hill.

You're not qualified to engage in discussions with grown-ups. But feel free
to lurk, you might learn something.


but i do see what is getting used the
most on deployments in this new climate and its not F111 (great
aircraft
tho) and really i dont see them or a a new type being used often or at
all.

There's a Chinese bloke named Sun Tzu, he wrote a book called "The Art
of
War". In it, he says the only true victory in a war is to not have to
fight
it. Fighting it (and hopefully) then winning it, is a bit of a mug's
game.
F111's (and their class of aircraft) are designed not to win wars by
fighting them but to win wars by preventing them. Show me an infantry
battalion that can do *that*.


Show me a country that has been deterred by Australian F-111s.

Have you stopped sucking dick?


The other disadvantage of relying on Mr Tzus deterrence is that if the
enemy
calls your bluff, 35 x F-111s are not going to last very long (let alone
the
markedly smaller number we can crew) or the stocks of weapons for the a/c.

That's why we don't solely rely on 35 F111's. This is like having a
conversation with an 8 year old.

3 more Bns with supporting units (for example) would mean an enemy would
need to bring at least 9 more Bns to invade (actually more, but lets not
quibble), with the consequent increase in logistic support, transport,
shipping, escorts etc.

Hmmm, yes, I realise army indoctrination has got you believing that the
defence of Australia starts at the low-tide mark, but the thruth is
different.

It raises the cost significantly more for the attacker than the defender.

Of course it never occurs to people like you, Private, that there are other
ways of "attacking" a country that doesn't involve lodging troops on the
mainland. To adopt your "policy" and rely solely on a few thousand more
lowly Privates (all as thick as you too, no doubt) would be strategic
suicide. I know they told you that the war isn't won till the "man with the
rifle stands on the hill", but that's just romantic nonsense they feed to
dildo Privates to make them think they're something special and to stop them
whingeing about being treated like dogs.

You're not qualified to discuss these matters with adults. Run along.


See how deterrence works?

Yes Private (Rtd), whatever you say.

You're dismissed now.

And those forces are available for other tasks when the threat to Aust is
not high, as well as increasing the most effective recruiting pool for
SASR - the ones who are most effective in the current, existing war.


What is being used allmost to the breaking point is us (diggers) and
our
equipment.

And you haven't even been in a proper war yet. Makes you worry, doesn't
it?


Certainly when money is being spent on a/c that Aust hasn't used

Which proves what a success its been as a strategic deterrent.

nd won't use.

Got a crystal ball, have you?


hat would let them risk it on real world ops yet?

Has the interim jammer even made it to the plane yet?


This is where our limited budget neads to go.

Can't agree with that. If we do it your way, we'll end up with an ADF
that
will actually have to defend Australia. Sun Tzu wouldn't approve.


Or we can keep putting money into a/c that soak up resources, but are of
no
use dealing with the threats we face.

Poor Private, your training has limited your ability to think beyond one
thing at a time, hasn't it?

who is willing or wants to have a go at us?

I guess you haven't read the paper lately.



Who has the capability that is more threatened by F-111s than SASR?


I just dont see
anyone out there who realy would have a go.

Wake up................. the rag-heads are on our case right now. If the
Intel revealed a al-Q or JI camp someplace that we couldn't openly get
at,
wouldn't it makes sense to go in and bomb said camp with a plane that
fly
across countries and avoid radar detection, hit the camp, and make it
back
to international airspace without needing AAR 4 or 5 times?


Or to hit it covertly with SASR and recover intelligence as well.

And risk losing people on the ground in a country that hasn't given
permission for us to send them there? Oh, that's just brilliant. You really
are an abortion that went wrong, aren't you?


Or pass the info onto our allies who have the ability to hit it with a
proper strike package rather than a half arsed attempt.

I'm going to pull the plug on this soon, because you're clearly too stupid
and inexperienced/untrained to cope with the concepts involved. Just like so
many other infantry privates I've dealt with, you're a pig-headed goose who
thinks he's the duck's guts and an expert on everything. Got some news for
you..............



The F111s are great but can we aford them now (old) and what is
needed?
ie
look at what is being used. We just dont have the $ for every thing we
need.

We would if we didn't waste millions on arts festivals for lefty
******s.

Spend the $ where its needed is what i say.

Spend the money where it will give us the most strategic value, I say.

Which may not be the F-111

Of course not. Putting all your eggs in one strategic basket has never been
a good idea. That's why we have a Navy too.

given the limited need for long ranged strike and
the disproportionate amount of funding the F-111 soaks up.

Here's the deal. If we scrap one-third of our strategic triad (the Pigs) and
a threat to Australia's interests appear thereafter that the Pigs could have
deterred, you have to run up and down Swanston Street in a tu-tu and a
dunce's hat yelling "infantry privates are dumb****s" every Anzac day.
--
De Oppresso Liber.

Well put. But most probably lost on the Private (Rtd) with the single-digit
IQ.

--
De Oppresso Liber.


"Michael Williamson" wrote in
message ...
L'acrobat wrote:

Show me a country that has been deterred by Australian F-111s.


The one bad thing (or good thing, depending upon your point of view)
about deterrence is that it is virtually impossible to show a 100%
certain 'win' for it. On the other hand, it is also almost impossible
to show a situation in which deterrence may not have played a factor,
unless an attack actually took place. In other words, the natural
response to your question is the challenge "show me a nation that
carried out their aggressive plans against Australia in spite of the
F-111. Since I have not read of an invasion or other blatant attack
against Australia proper (as opposed to against Australians, outside
of the country), I would be hard pressed to point to a failure of
deterrence. And while I haven't been observing ALL that closely,
I'd expect to have noticed a large scale incident that would prove
that reply wrong...

Mike

"Victor" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:31:12 +1000, smithxpj
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:53:59 +1000, Vector
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:02:24 +1000, "Brash"
wrote:

Obviously you never saw Williamtown in full swing when PTS was
operating
there alongside a couple of Mirage or Hornet squadrons.

Maybe he didn't - but neither did you.

I did - and the DZ was NOT on the airfield.


Yair...but the DZ is within spitting distance of Saltash air-ground
gunnery range and operations at both sites comfortably interlaced
without much of a hitch (when it was in full swing in the 70s anyway!)

Which does nothing to validate Brash's BS claim that the DZ was on the
airfield.

I never said it was on the airfield cocksucker.


It wasn't - even though PJI's did occasional demo jumps there.

Oh my god! A DZ *ON* the airfield.


And if he didn't have his head so far up his Khyber, Brash might
realise his other claim re the PTS operating alongside Mirages and
Hornets was complete bull**** as well - it never happened!

PTS was never at Williamtown and conducting training while Mirages and/or
Hornets were flying in and out and using Saltash? You're a knobgobbler.

--
De Oppresso Liber.

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...

Poor gate guard, it must suck knowing you are second rate.

Scratched record, no intelligent thought, scratched record, no
intelligent
thought.


Poor second rate gate guard.

Playing "last word" are we? The sure sign you've bitten off more
than
you
can chew.


gate guard - son you are a sad one indeed, tell us again about PTS
using
RAAF Williamtown as a DZ.

Come back when you've finished Yr 10 and can comprehend English
properly.
Got a clue for you, parachuting doesn't start when the plane approaches
the
DZ, it starts way earlier than that. Either way, the DZ *ON-BASE* at
Amberley runs quite nicely alongside air ops. But you couldn't be
expected
to know that, you're a mere Private (Rtd) with nothing more than your
infantry experiences to go on.

You poor sad little gate guard,

Wrong again dumb grunt. How said that you cant refute the fact that you are
dumb, and you were, a grunt. no wonder you've got such a big inferiority
complex.

you suggested that Willamtown was an example
of how Amberly could operate.

Sure did.


Surprise, surprise you turned out to be full of ****, who'da thunk it.

Wrong again dumb grunt.



Hardly a qualification to discuss aviation
matters. But feel free to hang around. If you take those khaki blinkers
off,
you might learn something here.

Gate guard, watching planes take off like the gaping yokel that you are
doesn't qualify you as the expert you pretend you are.

LOL, that's funny coming form a dill that left the *army*, of all things, as
nothing more than a Private and then proceeds to think he's an aviation
expert.

I wonder, were you in the Air Training Corps before the army?


Remember that they don't let you play in the planes either,

Wrong again dickhead. But hey, you're only a poor dumb ex-infantry private.
What would you know?

your past B707
tanker (fuel capacity) blunders are a great example of your stupidity
vastly
exceeding your knowledge.

Is that all you've got to work with? I'd list all your balls-ups, but I
don't want to cause a power blackout or melt my computer.


--
De Oppresso Liber.

"L'acrobat" wrote in message
...

"Brash" wrote in message
u...
Oh ****. This is like trying to explain quantum physics to monkeys.
(Actually, I suspect that would be easier).



You aren't very good at this are you?

This is pointless. Just like all the other "discussions" I've had with
dumb**** grunts in boozers and pubs over the years. You're all ****ing
brainwashed and stupid and can't be taught anything after they've finished
programming you at Kapooka and Singelton.

Poor gate guard, BTW what was it you applied for when you joined the
RAAF?,
GD after all, gate guard is as low as it goes.

What's funny about this line you've adopted, is that "gate guards" get paid
more and are better trained than your precious little lot.


And how much has the F-111 done to promote Austs interests beyond our
shores
in the time since we ordered them? compared to three Inf Bns over the same
time.

But then a gate guard like you has no idea at all have you?

I'm not a gate guard dill. It's obvious you have no idea at all.

Perhaps if you just spared us your "insights" and stuck to what you know
(whatever the **** that is) you wouldn't make a fool of YOURself.


Yawn, perhaps if you stuck to begging other dweebs in binaries NGs to tell
people you are cool

What the **** are you on about spastic?

and continued to promote assaulting females then you
would simply maintain all of our opinions of you?

Refresh my memory.

Especially when it makes potential aggressor decide not to be aggressive
in
the first place.

You see the problem with that is it's religion, not fact

And your bull**** about scrapping jets in favour of a few thousand more
dumbass grunts isn't? **** off idiot.

- you can give no
examples of potential aggressors who have been deterred by the F-111, you
just have faith in it.

Wheras in WW2 the Japanese acknowledged that they lacked the ability to
move
and supply the amount of troops they would need to invade Aust because of
the Army forces in situ.

Fact V religious belief.

Listen up dickhead, do the math and tell me how many troops were in the
various arms of the 2nd AIF, the RAAF, the RAN and the militia at the time
and compare that to the 21st Century. See ya later dickhead.


Its little wonder you think the way you do. Its that low
level army training you've been exposed to. Sadly,, a great many army
officers display the same "understanding" until they've done a Joint
Warfare
Course and learn that defending Australia doesn't start at the low-tide
mark.

Poor gate guard, you believe that and thats important, please tell us how
many credible attackers have been deterred by Aust F-111s?

Do you still stick your cock in dogs?



but it doesn't
neccessarily need to be delivered by F-111

The only correct thing you've said all day.

and it is not the be all and end
all of deterrent.

No **** Private (Rtd) L'abortion?


What a sad little dweeb you are.

And this "dweeb" could knock your stupid block off. How embarrassing for
you!

--
De Oppresso Liber.