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#11
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
Dave,
I think that the lesson to be learned here is that you should never - ever - respond to anonymous transmissions (for anything short of an imminent midair). Just ignore 'em Fully agree. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#12
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:30:13 -0700, Shirl
wrote: In this neck o' the woods, if someone violates Class B airspace and ATC knows who it is, they don't reprimand on the radio, they give a phone number to call when you're on the ground. It isn't up to you to decide what to do if you've gone into Class B airspace without the clearance. Same in my neck. The ol' "Call this number when you land" at towered fields, or there's a line person waiting or on the CTAF with the message on non-towered fields. No actual reprimand happens on the radio. |
#13
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
He's not ATC, so there's no rap to take.
Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the Class B at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting across the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might tell them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had been the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators. File the NASA form, Ron. It's cheap, easy, and may protect you. We did one, once, when Mary was dumped into Class D by an approach controller. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#14
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
"Ron Wanttaja" wrote Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the Class B at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting across the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might tell them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had been the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators. Which I would think that the investigators know is a common trick, and lacking any more evidence, would tell them that they don't have a case, and it would go no further. Am I being overly optimistic? -- Jim in NC |
#15
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
The NASA report may protect you, if you can demonstrate that any incursion
was inadvertent. The typical course is that you might get a call form the FSDO in around a week or so as part of the initial investigation. There are two possible responses- you did not do what they assert, or you can admit guilt. You should know that if you admit anything, it can be used against you in an administrative action. In other words, Miranda somehow doesn't apply. So, if you're the honest type and say- yes, I did enter the bravo by mistake, your statement can be used against you, with possible actions like suspensions, revocations, remedial training, etc as a result. I suspect that unless the guys at the bravo tracon had nothing better to do, the matter will never go anywhere. Besides, how would they get your N number? How did they know it was you who was flying the plane? They would have a lot of paperwork and a big case to prove (unless you admit you did something over the phone). So, go ahead and file the NASA report, but it will likely not come to mean anything. Good luck. |
#16
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:07:28 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:
"Ron Wanttaja" wrote Dozens of pilots on 122.8 heard someone say that a Fly Baby violated the Class B at the south end of Sea-Tac Class B. If ATC *did* notice someone cutting across the airspace and the FAA started an investigation, no doubt someone might tell them, "I heard it was a Fly Baby." If the guy making the radio call had been the guy who cut across, he's just misdirected the investigators. Which I would think that the investigators know is a common trick, and lacking any more evidence, would tell them that they don't have a case, and it would go no further. Am I being overly optimistic? I think the chance of any action being taken over this is near-nil. I ain't worried...but it's interesting to speculate on how something *could* happen. "Chances near-nil" isn't the same as "never." The ASRS form? Ohhhhh, yeah. Already done. As far as talking to the guy on the radio, I'm not concerned in this case. We had a brief exchange, at the end of which he grudgingly admitted that it probably hadn't been me. This wasn't a situation where a person flying some anonymous Cessna was accused; I have the only Fly Baby within ~60 miles. I'd just as soon quash any doubt that I take short cuts across the Class B. If this would have been the "You jerk, you cut me off!" sort of thing, I would have ignored it. After all, I hear those all the time. :-) A lot of folks are cautious about Auburn Airport because of the proximity of the extension of the Sea-Tac Class B. As you can see from this VFR chart... http://www.seaartcc.net/controller/t...s/VFRroute.jpg ....Auburn is just east of the bottom right corner of the keyway. Since all patterns are on the *west* side, people not familiar with the area are concerned about catching the corner. BTW, Redondo, the area where the plane supposedly cut through the Class B, is on th coastline where it turns north right above the "+" at the bottom of the keyway. I've been flying from Auburn for ~25 years (and only have had a transponder for the last ten of those). As I mentioned on my original post, I invariably go feet-dry at Dash Point, fly due east until I hit a local mall that is near the power lines shown on the chart linked above, then follow the power lines to the 45-entry point. Ron Wanttaja |
#17
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
"S" == Shirl writes:
S and ATC knows who it is, they don't reprimand on the radio, S they give a phone number to call when you're on the ground. I busted a VIP TFR 1.5 years ago. Learned some things for the futu - If ATC or anyone else asks you to "call this number" you're under no obligation to do so. It might be a good thing to do, or not. But you are not required to do so. In my case I did call back which was not a good thing. - If you do speak to a federal person don't make false statements. You can not answer questions but don't make false answers. In my case I told them everything, which was not a good thing. - ASRS ("get out of jail free")? Can be meaningless. I filed and it didn't do squat for me, not even the extra time they added on besides the TFR violation, for failing to get a briefing. - If you're a professional pilot you simply must have an attorney before talking to the feds. If you violate a FAR your best course of action may not at all be obvious. -- We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me. - Jack Handey |
#18
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
Just to reiterate what was said above - never ever, answer some
anonymous voice on the radio.. Continue making your position reports and go about your business... However there are limits... I take my plane to another field for mechanic work... We had just finished the annual on my Super Viking, pushed the plane out on the ramp and did the run up with extensive mag checks, etc. (had just put brand new mags on it), and brought the oil (fresh) temperature intot he green... Pushed it back inside (cuz it was 20 degrees ) and put the cowlings back on... The mechanics shop is right off the end of the runway... 20 minutes later pushed it back out, fired up, taxied, rolled onto the runway and took off... As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating that I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up and mag check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short line and yadda yadda... Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse... Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3 cars on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where the blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped my switch... So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind emergency landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there were two guys sitting there... "Where is the a**hole?" They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper." I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them to relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while, the radio has been silent... denny |
#19
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
Denny writes:
As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating that I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up and mag check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short line and yadda yadda... Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse... Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3 cars on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where the blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped my switch... So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind emergency landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there were two guys sitting there... "Where is the a**hole?" They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper." I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them to relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while, the radio has been silent... Was he transmitting from the ground, outside an aircraft? If so, did he have a license to do so? |
#20
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"Fly Baby, you violated Class B Airspace"
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Denny writes: As the gear was coming up this 'anonymous voice' comes on stating that I just violated reg # so-and-so because I did not do a run up and mag check and prop cycle and I had not stopped at the hold short line and yadda yadda... Now, I had been ignoring this a-hole and his anonymous rantings for the previous three or four years and it was just getting worse... Because it was a dark, cold, December afternoon there were only 3 cars on the entire field, in front of the terminal, so I knew where the blowhard had to be... For whatever reason, he had finally flipped my switch... So I announced that the Viking was making a 180 and downwind emergency landing! And I did... As I entered the terminal there were two guys sitting there... "Where is the a**hole?" They laughed and pointed towards the road where I could see tail lights disappearing in the rapidly gathering darkness... "He just remembered his wife wanted him to get some bread for supper." I left them with some specific instructions for the future for them to relay to Mr. Radio... He apparently got the message because it has been over ten years and while I see him on the field once in a while, the radio has been silent... Was he transmitting from the ground, outside an aircraft? If so, did he have a license to do so? What's it to you? you will never fly. Ever Bertie |
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