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#1
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New starter in a 172 2005
I'm being told that I'll need a new starter and ring gear in my plane
(used intermittantly by a school). The last one didn't seem to last very long... It was flooded by an instructor and cranked it "a bit longer than usual" to get it started. The mech. startes this as the reason they failed. Just how long should a starter and ring gear last under normal conditions? The last one cost about $380.00 (I'll have to check and see the make/model on the paperwork). Did my mechanic cheap out just to save a few dollars? Should I be sure a top-of-the-line model is replaced or push for a warranty replacement? |
#2
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New starter in a 172 2005
"passenger 1957" wrote in message
... I'm being told that I'll need a new starter and ring gear in my plane (used intermittantly by a school). The last one didn't seem to last very long... It was flooded by an instructor and cranked it "a bit longer than usual" to get it started. The mech. startes this as the reason they failed. Just how long should a starter and ring gear last under normal conditions? The last one cost about $380.00 (I'll have to check and see the make/model on the paperwork). Did my mechanic cheap out just to save a few dollars? Should I be sure a top-of-the-line model is replaced or push for a warranty replacement? Starters are high failure items on a number of planes and in my experience there seems to be no rhyme or reason with how long they last. Sometimes they go out every 500 hrs or so and sometimes they seem to last forever. Just be glad your starter is up front and is easy to replace. Some fuel injected planes are tricky to start and if someone doesn't know what they are doing they can easily burn up a starter. |
#3
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New starter in a 172 2005
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT), passenger 1957
wrote: I'm being told that I'll need a new starter and ring gear in my plane (used intermittantly by a school). The last one didn't seem to last very long... It was flooded by an instructor and cranked it "a bit longer than usual" to get it started. The mech. startes this as the reason they failed. Just how long should a starter and ring gear last under normal conditions? The last one cost about $380.00 (I'll have to check and see the make/model on the paperwork). Did my mechanic cheap out just to save a few dollars? Should I be sure a top-of-the-line model is replaced or push for a warranty replacement? I've had an obscene number of starters in skyhawks go until the new lightweight starters were changed in by Cessna. I can't think of any ring gears. |
#4
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New starter in a 172 2005
Peter Clark wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT), passenger 1957 wrote: I'm being told that I'll need a new starter and ring gear in my plane (used intermittantly by a school). The last one didn't seem to last very long... It was flooded by an instructor and cranked it "a bit longer than usual" to get it started. The mech. startes this as the reason they failed. Just how long should a starter and ring gear last under normal conditions? The last one cost about $380.00 (I'll have to check and see the make/model on the paperwork). Did my mechanic cheap out just to save a few dollars? Should I be sure a top-of-the-line model is replaced or push for a warranty replacement? I've had an obscene number of starters in skyhawks go until the new lightweight starters were changed in by Cessna. I can't think of any ring gears. Not an expert here, but be sure the starter gears are the right ones for the starter ring gear. Not the right ratio and can wear the teeth. If that is your problem, otherwise I wouldn;t think the ring would have to be replaced. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP KSWI |
#5
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New starter in a 172 2005
On Aug 14, 11:22*am, Ross wrote:
Peter Clark wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT), passenger 1957 wrote: I'm being told that I'll need a new starter and ring gear in my plane (used intermittantly by a school). The last one didn't seem to last very long... It was flooded by an instructor and cranked it "a bit longer than usual" to get it started. The mech. startes this as the reason they failed. Just how long should a starter and ring gear last under normal conditions? The last one cost about $380.00 (I'll have to check and see the make/model on the paperwork). Did my mechanic cheap out just to save a few dollars? Should I be sure a top-of-the-line model is replaced or push for a warranty replacement? I've had an obscene number of starters in skyhawks go until the new lightweight starters were changed in by Cessna. *I can't think of any ring gears. Not an expert here, but be sure the starter gears are the right ones for the starter ring gear. Not the right ratio and can wear the teeth. If that is your problem, otherwise I wouldn;t think the ring would have to be replaced. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP KSWI- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - There's a tooth missing. |
#6
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New starter in a 172 2005
On Aug 14, 1:00 pm, passenger 1957
wrote: There's a tooth missing. The ring gear should be replaced at overhaul. If there's a tooth missing, it's likely pretty old, or the starter had engagement issues. It should be engaging the ring gear promptly, before the starter really winds up, and if the starter drive is sticky the teeth will get worn quickly. On a four-banger there are two places on the gear that get it the most, both where the prop tends to stop on shutdown. The drive bendix on a Lyc needs lubing with silicone spray lube, and it's really hard to get at. Any other lubricant will attract dust and create a sticky sludge that sooner or later causes engagement problems, tearing up the ring gear, and then seizes the drive splines and the starter won't engage at all. Many starters (and batteries) get replaced unnecessarily because the solenoids are old and their contacts are corroded or burned. Any resistance across those contacts causes a large voltage drop because of the high current flow, and it can be verified using a voltmeter across the studs while cranking. There shouldn't be more than a volt or so of drop. Both the master and starter solenoids should get replaced if this is noted. Some pilots just keep cranking if the engine is flooded or cold or has a bad mag or whatever else is making it reluctant to start. Good way to bust a starter. Lycoming recommends something like a ten-minute cooldown after three ten-second cranks. Starters have no cooling system and use a tremendous amount of current that generates a lot of heat.The commutator segments are set in plastic which overheats and throws the segments, and the field and armature windings get hot and burn off their insulating varnish and short together. Things really get hot then. Killing a battery with the starter will often ruin it permanently; I don't know how many batteries we've replaced after someone ground them right down, sulfating them so bad they wouldn't take a charge anymore. Got to think, Pilot: why won't it start? What should I do besides just cranking and hoping for a miracle? Dan |
#7
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New starter in a 172 2005
wrote in message
... On Aug 14, 1:00 pm, passenger 1957 wrote: There's a tooth missing. The ring gear should be replaced at overhaul. If there's a tooth missing, it's likely pretty old, or the starter had engagement issues. It should be engaging the ring gear promptly, before the starter really winds up, and if the starter drive is sticky the teeth will get worn quickly. On a four-banger there are two places on the gear that get it the most, both where the prop tends to stop on shutdown. The drive bendix on a Lyc needs lubing with silicone spray lube, and it's really hard to get at. Any other lubricant will attract dust and create a sticky sludge that sooner or later causes engagement problems, tearing up the ring gear, and then seizes the drive splines and the starter won't engage at all. Many starters (and batteries) get replaced unnecessarily because the solenoids are old and their contacts are corroded or burned. Any resistance across those contacts causes a large voltage drop because of the high current flow, and it can be verified using a voltmeter across the studs while cranking. There shouldn't be more than a volt or so of drop. Both the master and starter solenoids should get replaced if this is noted. Some pilots just keep cranking if the engine is flooded or cold or has a bad mag or whatever else is making it reluctant to start. Good way to bust a starter. Lycoming recommends something like a ten-minute cooldown after three ten-second cranks. Starters have no cooling system and use a tremendous amount of current that generates a lot of heat.The commutator segments are set in plastic which overheats and throws the segments, and the field and armature windings get hot and burn off their insulating varnish and short together. Things really get hot then. Killing a battery with the starter will often ruin it permanently; I don't know how many batteries we've replaced after someone ground them right down, sulfating them so bad they wouldn't take a charge anymore. Got to think, Pilot: why won't it start? What should I do besides just cranking and hoping for a miracle? Dan Well said. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. |
#8
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New starter in a 172 2005
I'd still like to know if I should push for a better starter or are
they all about the same? (I don't mind spending extra money if it will help push off a similar problem) Where might I send the fried one to see if it's either a 'bad unit' or to see if there's some other problem to look into? |
#9
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New starter in a 172 2005
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:26:36 -0700 (PDT), passenger 1957
wrote: I'd still like to know if I should push for a better starter or are they all about the same? (I don't mind spending extra money if it will help push off a similar problem) Where might I send the fried one to see if it's either a 'bad unit' or to see if there's some other problem to look into? You want the lightweight, magnetic (non-direct drive, I forget the make offhand) actuated bendix starter. Spin faster, better starts, all in all a better unit. |
#10
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New starter in a 172 2005
"passenger 1957" wrote in message
... I'd still like to know if I should push for a better starter or are they all about the same? (I don't mind spending extra money if it will help push off a similar problem) Where might I send the fried one to see if it's either a 'bad unit' or to see if there's some other problem to look into? It all just depends on why your starter failed in the first place. If it failed because someone is overcranking the starter, I don't know that a better starter is going to fix your problem. I'm fond of Sky-Tec starters, but I've had problems with those also. However my problem was related to a starter adapter which your plane doesn't have. You may already have a Sky-Tec as I've heard they come as standard equipment on some newer planes, but I'm not sure if this is true or not. |
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