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  #51  
Old February 24th 18, 06:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 8:19:04 AM UTC-8, Bruce Hoult wrote:
How many touch-and-goes?

I don't see much difference between them in terms of an intention to land..


Many many, in helicopters and airplanes. But a touch-n-go is not a missed. As for the intention to land you are correct. Although on more than one occasion, on a touch-n-go I have been asked to make it a full stop, kind of late in the landing phase. The worst (while off subject) was being asked to abort a takeoff at rotation in a CE 340, I asked if I was on fire, tower said no, and I aborted takeoff anyway, barely got it stopped. Turns out they wanted to change my IFR clearance for a vastly different, non preferred route. When they said I was not on fire, I should have continued T/O.
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  #52  
Old February 24th 18, 07:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom[_21_]
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Roger - completely understand where you are coming from Greg - I 100% get what you are saying. As I've said before I know I can't change people's minds who are firmly ensconced in their mindset and I won't try. Best of luck to you Greg.

For others - please consider my multiple other points, put it in your risk/benefit analysis machine and process it yourself. Best of luck to all.

Regards,
Tom
  #53  
Old February 25th 18, 12:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Maybe, what we should do is accept the reality that some inexperienced pilots are still going to try a high speed low pass regardless of warnings - and so we should give them some advice on how to to mitigate the risk. Especially this seems needed with respect to hazards that are not programmed into Condor if our newbie hero thinks Condor alone will prepare him/her for the event. In my experience, here are some things that mitigate (but do not eliminate) the risks: 1) Know your glider's energy exchange performance with respect to speed and altitude (how much altitude does it take to accelerate to 90% of VNE and how much altitude will be gained (usually) on the climb back)? How is it different with water ballast? Experiment first at altitude.. 2) Secure the cockpit before starting the maneuver. Stow everything that can bounce, fly around the cockpit, or foul the landing gear handle and be ready for an expedited landing after the pass. 3) Trim the glider and set the flaps for the speed you expect parallel to the ground and change nothing during the high speed portion of the maneuver (do not change hands on the stick and if you are dumping water start that on the way down while high and early) 4) straps tight and do nothing to move your body fore or aft at high speed. Shut the vent window before starting and if you forget to - ignore it., 5) Know and respect your density altitude and TAS, 6) Double check the pattern and use the radio for your intentions 7) Use smooth stick pressure through the entire maneuver, 8) No closer to the ground than 1 wingspan until you are expert at the maneuver, 9) Expect to abort the maneuver at any time and have your landing plan/pattern worked out before you start. 10) Only on a light wind day.
ROY
  #54  
Old February 25th 18, 05:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 7:23:32 PM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
Maybe, what we should do is accept the reality that some inexperienced pilots are still going to try a high speed low pass regardless of warnings


Some newish pilots have never heard the warnings, yet almost all new pilots have seen low passes on Youtube (or live). The bold young pilot that I stumbled across said he was motivated to try his first low pass after seeing the 'competition finishes' on the recent Chilean Grand Prix video. He got some strong feedback from his club members AFTER completing his first low pass.


  #55  
Old February 25th 18, 12:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 12:14:27 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 7:23:32 PM UTC-5, Roy B. wrote:
Maybe, what we should do is accept the reality that some inexperienced pilots are still going to try a high speed low pass regardless of warnings


Some newish pilots have never heard the warnings, yet almost all new pilots have seen low passes on Youtube (or live). The bold young pilot that I stumbled across said he was motivated to try his first low pass after seeing the 'competition finishes' on the recent Chilean Grand Prix video. He got some strong feedback from his club members AFTER completing his first low pass.


So what's wrong with the culture of this soaring operation that the young, bold pilot (apparently) didn't seek any guidance?

  #56  
Old February 25th 18, 04:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Our young hero probably figured the guidance he would receive would be a finger wagging (false) rulebook thumping abstinence speech. From the sounds of it he was likely right. So how does that culture improve safety?
  #57  
Old February 25th 18, 05:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
MNLou
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If his club grounded him for a reflection period, that might get his attention.

Lou

 




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