Straight-ins at uncontrolled airports?

On Feb 5, 3:30 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

However, PLEASE try to refrain from doing them when the pattern is
full. Not only is it rude, it's often dangerous to attempt when
you've got three on downwind, one on base, and one already on final.
I see this happen all too often -- almost invariably by the charter
guys, who have a paying guy in the back that's late for his meeting --
and it results in frayed nerves and flared tempers.

Lets all pick on the charter guys ').Sometimes, it is easier (when you
look at the comparitive speeds and altitudes) to just fly a straight
in.Of course, this is not always the case, and people should not be
rude or disrespectful about it.Try this the next time you are out
there, fly your downwind at 1500 AGL and 190kts, then try to figure
out where YOU will fit into the traffic patern.I bet you will find it
is not so easy.Fortunatly most all of the GA guys understand this and
are VERY helpful.IMO the transport guys appreciate it very much.But
then there is those pesky charter guys (Kidding).
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"F. Reid" wrote in message oups.com...
: On Feb 5, 3:30 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
:
: However, PLEASE try to refrain from doing them when the pattern is
: full. Not only is it rude, it's often dangerous to attempt when
: you've got three on downwind, one on base, and one already on final.
: I see this happen all too often -- almost invariably by the charter
: guys, who have a paying guy in the back that's late for his meeting --
: and it results in frayed nerves and flared tempers.
:
: Lets all pick on the charter guys ').Sometimes, it is easier (when you
: look at the comparitive speeds and altitudes) to just fly a straight
: in.Of course, this is not always the case, and people should not be
: rude or disrespectful about it.Try this the next time you are out
: there, fly your downwind at 1500 AGL and 190kts, then try to figure
: out where YOU will fit into the traffic patern.I bet you will find it
: is not so easy.Fortunatly most all of the GA guys understand this and
: are VERY helpful.IMO the transport guys appreciate it very much.But
: then there is those pesky charter guys (Kidding).
: --
: Jay Honeck
: Iowa City, IA
: Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
: "Your Aviation Destination"
:


Tower: Cherokee 918, can you give me a close in approach? Traffic is a DC 10 on a 5 mile final.
Me: Sure!
Tower: Cherokee 918, you are cleared to land, runway 4R. Please expedite.
Me: Copy, cleared to land 4R, Cherokee 918.

I'm out on about a 1/2 mile right base for 4R. Moving pretty good in the Cherokee 6, no flaps yet...Pull the power and
hold the nose up, roll in to a good tight 30° right bank, slow into the white arc, pull on full flaps, roll her out and
cross the threshold at 25' or so, touchdown with the stall horn honkin'. Make the first turn off...

Tower: Cherokee 918, thanks for that, contact ground .9
Me: G-day...

Hawaiian freight dog flying days...

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I haven't flown in a while, but am in the market for a used plane.

I recalling hearing somewhere that straight-in approaches are now approved
at uncontrolled airports. Is this correct?



I assume you are not trying to win friends and influance people?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:ELCdnYJpMrZIJFrYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I haven't flown in a while, but am in the market for a used plane.

I recalling hearing somewhere that straight-in approaches are now
approved at uncontrolled airports. Is this correct?



I assume you are not trying to win friends and influance people?

I am gleening from this thread the state of straight-ins has not changed
over the years. To me a key is how busy the pattern is. If I am lined up
at night, I like the straight-in. It is pretty rare to have a full pattern
at night.

Danny Deger

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

To me the key is nobody bending metal or ending up dead.

Even if the pattern isn't full, maybe there's only one guy on downwind,
that's all it takes for me to take another option of either announcing an
upwind opposite the downwind traffic or a crossover to the downwind, what
ever allows me to keep my eyes on him and other possible traffic as I
transition into the pattern.

Something else I try to practice is that when transferred to the local
traffic advisory, I not only announce my position on the approach including
altitudes, but I use terms that VFR or non local pilots in the area will
understand. I think this is an area where some of the pilots such as Jay
refers to can improve their SOP. Granted, when the pattern is full, this
maybe too much info when everybody's trying to announce their positions and
intentions, again, a pilot must be able to adjust to the circumstances.

For those on downwind encountering another pilot performing a straight in
approach, don't forget about the ability to extend your downwind leg. Don't
let yourself get so locked into your "standard" pattern of turning base when
45 degrees from X at Xagl at Xrpms and Xkts that you find yourself flustered
and brain locked when an approaching airplane announces something that you
aren't expecting. Standard procedures are safe procedures, especially at
night or at unfamiliar airports but leave some flexibility in your bag of
tricks for the unexpected. The same can be said for an unexpected aircraft
entering an extended base in front of you while you are on downwind. Be
ready. Have a plan but be ready, willing, and able to change your plan.
Play 'what-if'. What are your options? Which is the safest? That's the
option that you want to be willing to use, even if the other guy isn't.

JimB

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote in message
news:ELCdnYJpMrZIJFrYnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I haven't flown in a while, but am in the market for a used plane.

I recalling hearing somewhere that straight-in approaches are now
approved at uncontrolled airports. Is this correct?



I assume you are not trying to win friends and influance people?

I am gleening from this thread the state of straight-ins has not changed
over the years. To me a key is how busy the pattern is. If I am lined up
at night, I like the straight-in. It is pretty rare to have a full
pattern at night.

Danny Deger

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 21:59:57 -0600, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

To me the key is nobody bending metal or ending up dead.

Even if the pattern isn't full, maybe there's only one guy on downwind,
that's all it takes for me to take another option of either announcing an
upwind opposite the downwind traffic or a crossover to the downwind, what
ever allows me to keep my eyes on him and other possible traffic as I
transition into the pattern.

There is little that scares me more than some one flying an upwind.
They quite often end up crossing just off the end of the runway right
where I hit pattern altitude on climb out and they do it in my blind
spot. It's even worse when taking off on 06 when the sun is about 20
to 25 degrees above the horizon.

invariably they announce cross wind (if they announce) without saying
where. That can make for a lot of faces looking for traffic that may
or may not be very close. Couple of times over the years I've had one
seemingly pop out of now where close enough to count rivets.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...

Something else I try to practice is that when transferred to the local
traffic advisory, I not only announce my position on the approach
including altitudes, but I use terms that VFR or non local pilots in the
area will understand.


That should include any identified point on the sectional, but some pilots
complain about that usage.



I think this is an area where some of the pilots
such as Jay refers to can improve their SOP. Granted, when the pattern is
full, this maybe too much info when everybody's trying to announce their
positions and intentions, again, a pilot must be able to adjust to the
circumstances.


Just what does it mean for the pattern to be full? If the pattern is truly
full, what is an itinerant arrival supposed to do? Hold somewhere until
someone gets tired of doing touch and goes?



For those on downwind encountering another pilot performing a straight in
approach, don't forget about the ability to extend your downwind leg.
Don't let yourself get so locked into your "standard" pattern of turning
base when 45 degrees from X at Xagl at Xrpms and Xkts that you find
yourself flustered and brain locked when an approaching airplane announces
something that you aren't expecting.


Or, in other words, expect aircraft to arrive straight-in and scan the final
for traffic. Too many pilots don't look for traffic outside the pattern.

Steven P. McNicoll writes:

Just what does it mean for the pattern to be full? If the pattern is truly
full, what is an itinerant arrival supposed to do? Hold somewhere until
someone gets tired of doing touch and goes?

I'm still not sure that I see the advantage to patterns. It just seems like
it puts a lot of aircraft in close proximity to each other. And unless they
are all aircraft of identical type, "the" pattern will actually be several
patterns, some with slow, low aircraft, and others with higher, faster
aircraft. Unfortunately, all of these patterns may still be sharing a single
runway. It sounds like a recipe for accidents.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Advisory Circular 90-66A, Operations at Airports Without an Operating
Control Tower, is the reference. It clearly illustrates straight-in
approaches to both single and parallel runways.

Bob Gardner

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I haven't flown in a while, but am in the market for a used plane.

I recalling hearing somewhere that straight-in approaches are now approved
at uncontrolled airports. Is this correct?

Danny Deger

Bingo. AC90-66A is current and applicable.
91.126 does not apply because it is limited to "turns" in the traffic
pattern, not the approach itself. There should be no turns in a straight in
approach and all maneuvering should be performed prior to the traffic
pattern. Pay heed to other traffic and 91.111 or 91.113 won't catch you
either.
Jim

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
Advisory Circular 90-66A, Operations at Airports Without an Operating
Control Tower, is the reference. It clearly illustrates straight-in
approaches to both single and parallel runways.

Bob Gardner

"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
I haven't flown in a while, but am in the market for a used plane.

I recalling hearing somewhere that straight-in approaches are now
approved at uncontrolled airports. Is this correct?

Danny Deger