China to buy Eurofighters?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 07:04:27 GMT, Scott Ferrin wrote:
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 03:09:10 +0000, ess (phil
hunt) wrote:

item: In October, a Chinese official report called for greater trade
with the EU, and for the EU's arms embrago against China to be
lifted.

item: German foreign minister Gerhard Schroder recently visited
China and said arms embrago should be lifted.

item: a spokesman for EADS (large European arms manufacturer, which
is one of the main partners in Eurofighter) recently called for the
embargo to end.

Any speculation as to what weapons China wants to buy? I think the
Eurofighter. Also on the shopping list might be ASRAAM, Meteor and
ASTER anti-aircraft missiles.

There's a more detailed discussion of this on my blog at:
http://www.cabalamat.org/weblog/art_97.html


In my opinion selling them top of the line stuff is the height of
stupidity. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the
situation is going to be with China and the West in ten to fifteen
years.

You say that as if you assume hostility is obviously going to
happen. I'd like to see your reasoning for that...

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:27:31 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:
In article ,
"Adrian" wrote:

"Scott Ferrin" wrote in message

In my opinion selling them top of the line stuff is the height of
stupidity. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the
situation is going to be with China and the West in ten to fifteen
years.

Please explain. I see no conflict coming.

China has a lot of "issues" of the type that usually leads to war in one
way or another.

They're on the edge of running out of oil, and don't have a strong
enough economy in most other respects to let them buy enough for their
near-future needs. There are, however, areas in their vicinity (Siberia
and Malaysia for example) that have oil.

And Russia is a declining power; many have speculated on an eventual
Chinese takeover of Siberia.

The Chinese government, despite the perceptions of some, is fairly
nasty,

Indeed, they have a far-from-perfect human rights record.

and the Taiwan situation alone could make things go very bad,
very fast.

That's true.

It wouldn't take much for a single event to push China over the edge. A
major earthquake at the Three Gorges Dam after it's filled up, for
example. In one stroke, they would lose much of their future electrical
generation *and* a lot of their crops and industrial production for a
year or two.

I imagine the Chinese have thought about this.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:11:46 -0600, tscottme wrote:
Scott Ferrin wrote in message
.. .



In my opinion selling them top of the line stuff is the height of
stupidity. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the
situation is going to be with China and the West in ten to fifteen
years.

What makes you think the Europeans don't want the next problem for the
US to be as bad as possible? They have no hope of exceeding the US
unless a full-scale war devastates the US.

The EU will exceed the US economically next year (if it hasn't
already).

The fact that it helps
communists is a happy coincidence.

troll/loony alert

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:11:12 -0000, Keith Willshaw wrote:

In fact there is no prospect of the ban being lifted anytime soon.
While the French Government and some corporate bodies
have pressed for it

And the German govmt.

the EU itself has stated that it has no
plans to lift the embargo and even if it did has stated that
other agreements controlling the arms trade would prevent
such deliveries taking place.

That's a relevant point.



In fact the main suppliers of high tech weaponry to China
have been Israel and Russia and even the USA supplied
dual use technology supposedly for satellite launching
that is believed to have been used in the Chinese
missile program.

It seems to me that if Israel can supply China with missiles and
other technology, there should be no problems for Europe doing so,
since Israeli military tech is roughly on a level with European.


--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:43:41 -0600, Alan Minyard wrote:
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:11:46 -0600, "tscottme" wrote:

Scott Ferrin wrote in message
. ..



In my opinion selling them top of the line stuff is the height of
stupidity. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the
situation is going to be with China and the West in ten to fifteen
years.

What makes you think the Europeans don't want the next problem for the
US to be as bad as possible? They have no hope of exceeding the US
unless a full-scale war devastates the US. The fact that it helps
communists is a happy coincidence.

Roger that. The europeans are hardly our "friends".

They certainly wouldn't be if people like you were running the USA.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:11:46 -0600, tscottme wrote:
Scott Ferrin wrote in message
.. .



In my opinion selling them top of the line stuff is the height of
stupidity. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what the
situation is going to be with China and the West in ten to fifteen
years.

What makes you think the Europeans don't want the next problem for the
US to be as bad as possible? They have no hope of exceeding the US
unless a full-scale war devastates the US.

The EU will exceed the US economically next year (if it hasn't
already).

Nope: http://www.eurolegal.org/uspoleur.shtml

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:11:12 -0000, Keith Willshaw
wrote:

In fact there is no prospect of the ban being lifted anytime soon.
While the French Government and some corporate bodies
have pressed for it

And the German govmt.


Cite please.

the EU itself has stated that it has no
plans to lift the embargo and even if it did has stated that
other agreements controlling the arms trade would prevent
such deliveries taking place.

That's a relevant point.



In fact the main suppliers of high tech weaponry to China
have been Israel and Russia and even the USA supplied
dual use technology supposedly for satellite launching
that is believed to have been used in the Chinese
missile program.

It seems to me that if Israel can supply China with missiles and
other technology, there should be no problems for Europe doing so,
since Israeli military tech is roughly on a level with European.


The EU views supplying arms to China as a bad idea however as
does the USA since it was US pressure that stopped the development
of an AWACS type system for China by Israeli companies.

Keith

In article ,
ess (phil hunt) wrote:

The EU will exceed the US economically next year (if it hasn't
already).

How can a shrinking economy, with high unemployment (Europe) overtake a
growing economy, with decreasing unemployment (the US)?

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
ess (phil hunt) wrote:


The EU will exceed the US economically next year (if it hasn't
already).


How can a shrinking economy, with high unemployment (Europe) overtake a
growing economy, with decreasing unemployment (the US)?

Can only happen if one or more of your assumptions here was wrong.

John

"tscottme" wrote in message
...
What makes you think the Europeans don't want the next problem for the
US to be as bad as possible? They have no hope of exceeding the US
unless a full-scale war devastates the US. The fact that it helps
communists is a happy coincidence.

You're quite insane.

Regards,

Si