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#1
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Piper Pathfinder Article
The April 2004 PLANE&PILOT has a review of the 1974 Piper Pathfinder.
A table at the end of the article compares the 74 Pathfinder to the 74 Skylane. I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 Some other interesting numbers stand out in the comparison. |
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On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:16 GMT, john smith wrote in
Message-Id: : I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 He should be glad he didn't purchase a Charger: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html Cessna doesn't reveal the Skylane's useful load: http://skylane.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml Is the Piper or Cessna able to carry the most payload with full tanks? |
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Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:16 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 He should be glad he didn't purchase a Charger: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html Cessna doesn't reveal the Skylane's useful load: http://skylane.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml Is the Piper or Cessna able to carry the most payload with full tanks? keeping in mind that these are 1974 models... Pathfinder 182 average equipped new list price $36,490 $30,475 current values $63,000 $79,000 price appreciation factor 172% 259% gross weight (lbs) 3,000 2,950 empth weight (lbs) 1,550 1,645 useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 horsepower 235 230 power loading (lbs/hp) 12.8 12.8 wing loading (lbs/sqft) 17.6 16.9 total fuel capacity (gal) 82 79 payload, max fuel (lbs) 958 831 cruise speed, 75% (kts) 133 139 best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Vso 52 50 takeoff run (ft) 850 705 landing run (ft) 1,040 590 |
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I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet)
unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 We've never had any reason to fly higher than 12,500 -- even when we flew to the Grand Canyon. But we were still climbing pretty smartly when we leveled off, so I wonder about that ceiling. (Doubt I'll be finding out anytime soon, however. I don't have an oxygen system.) current values $63,000 $79,000 Pfffft! What year are these prices from? I haven't seen a decent Pathfinder go for less than $80K since we bought ours in 2002. There are several for sale in T-A-P for $95K+. useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 Yep, that's what makes the Pathfinder such an awesome plane. To be able to haul four 200 pounders, full tanks, AND baggage is a wonderful thing. best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Totally bogus. We routinely see 1000+ fpm. Although, to be fair, our Pathfinder has every speed mod ever made for it, so I don't know what a stock bird would do. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:25:11 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in Message-Id: XIL3c.100119$PR3.1812564@attbi_s03: I don't have an oxygen system. You don't need one below 14,500'. |
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On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:36:31 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote in Message-Id: : On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:25:11 GMT, "Jay Honeck" wrote in Message-Id: XIL3c.100119$PR3.1812564@attbi_s03: I don't have an oxygen system. You don't need one below 14,500'. .... for 30 minutes. |
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On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:40:26 GMT, john smith wrote in
Message-Id: : Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:16 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 He should be glad he didn't purchase a Charger: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html Cessna doesn't reveal the Skylane's useful load: http://skylane.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml Is the Piper or Cessna able to carry the most payload with full tanks? keeping in mind that these are 1974 models... Pathfinder 182 average equipped new list price $36,490 $30,475 current values $63,000 $79,000 price appreciation factor 172% 259% gross weight (lbs) 3,000 2,950 empth weight (lbs) 1,550 1,645 useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 horsepower 235 230 power loading (lbs/hp) 12.8 12.8 wing loading (lbs/sqft) 17.6 16.9 Service Ceiling (ft) 13,550 17,700 total fuel capacity (gal) 82 79 payload, max fuel (lbs) 958 831 cruise speed, 75% (kts) 133 139 best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Vso 52 50 takeoff run (ft) 850 705 landing run (ft) 1,040 590 The Skylane carries about 150 pounds less, at 4-1/2% greater speed, to a 3,150' higher altitude, with a substantially shorter landing run due to the Pathfinder's more pronounced ground-effect, and it has two doors. If the Pathfinder were loaded 150 pounds lighter, it would reduce the difference between it and the Skylane. If the performance numbers were the sole criteria in selecting between the two, who could argue against the Skylane? It even has better sagebrush clearance and a rain porch, and for photography and pipeline work, ... Have you got any cabin dimensions? |
#8
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I suspect that the 182's shorter landing performance has more to do with its
better flaps and consequent lower approach speed than with ground effect. Mike MU-2 "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:40:26 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:16 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 He should be glad he didn't purchase a Charger: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html Cessna doesn't reveal the Skylane's useful load: http://skylane.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml Is the Piper or Cessna able to carry the most payload with full tanks? keeping in mind that these are 1974 models... Pathfinder 182 average equipped new list price $36,490 $30,475 current values $63,000 $79,000 price appreciation factor 172% 259% gross weight (lbs) 3,000 2,950 empth weight (lbs) 1,550 1,645 useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 horsepower 235 230 power loading (lbs/hp) 12.8 12.8 wing loading (lbs/sqft) 17.6 16.9 Service Ceiling (ft) 13,550 17,700 total fuel capacity (gal) 82 79 payload, max fuel (lbs) 958 831 cruise speed, 75% (kts) 133 139 best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Vso 52 50 takeoff run (ft) 850 705 landing run (ft) 1,040 590 The Skylane carries about 150 pounds less, at 4-1/2% greater speed, to a 3,150' higher altitude, with a substantially shorter landing run due to the Pathfinder's more pronounced ground-effect, and it has two doors. If the Pathfinder were loaded 150 pounds lighter, it would reduce the difference between it and the Skylane. If the performance numbers were the sole criteria in selecting between the two, who could argue against the Skylane? It even has better sagebrush clearance and a rain porch, and for photography and pipeline work, ... Have you got any cabin dimensions? |
#9
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On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 01:18:12 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote in Message-Id: .net: I suspect that the 182's shorter landing performance has more to do with its better flaps and consequent lower approach speed than with ground effect. The PA28's flaps are considerably closer to the pavement than the Cessna's. That might increase ground effect. I agree, that a heaver load at a higher speed is a significant contributor to the PA28's longer landing run also. Perhaps there are errors in the specifications posted: john smith wrote in Message-Id: : keeping in mind that these are 1974 models... Pathfinder 182 average equipped new list price $36,490 $30,475 current values $63,000 $79,000 price appreciation factor 172% 259% gross weight (lbs) 3,000 2,950 empty weight (lbs) 1,550 1,645 useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 horsepower 235 230 power loading (lbs/hp) 12.8 12.8 wing loading (lbs/sqft) 17.6 16.9 Service Ceiling (ft) 13,550 17,700 total fuel capacity (gal) 82 79 payload, max fuel (lbs) 958 831 cruise speed, 75% (kts) 133 139 best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Vso 52 50 takeoff run (ft) 850 705 landing run (ft) 1,040 590 TAP proffers these considerably different numbers: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html PIPER PA28-235 PATHFINDER Engine: LYC O-540-B4B5 75% Cruise: 133 kts Wingspan: 32.00 ft Horsepower: 235 Stall: 52 kts Length: 24.08 ft Rec'md TBO: 2000 hrs Range: 915 nm Height: 7.25 ft Srv Ceiling: 14500 ft Empty Wt: 1435 lbs Std Fuel: 50 gal Gross Wt: 2900 lbs Max Fuel: 84 gal Takeoff (over 50 ft obstacle): 1040 ft Landing (over 50 ft obstacle): 1060 ft Takeoff: 600 ft Landing: 550 ft Here are Plane and Pilot magazine's numbers: http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/cont...essna182s.html 2000 Cessna 182S SPECIFICATIONS Base Price: $227,900 Engine make/model: Lycoming IO-540-AB1A5 Horsepower@rpm@altitude: 230@2400@SL Horsepower For Takeoff: 230 TBO hours: 2000 Fuel Type: 100/100LL Propeller type/diameter (in.): McCauley CS three-blade/79 in. Landing gear type: Tri/Fixed Max ramp weight (lbs.): 3110 Gross weight (lbs): 3100 Landing weight (lbs.): 2950 Std. empty weight (lbs.): 1928 Useful load - std. (lbs.): 1182 Payload - full std. fuel (lbs.): 654 Usable fuel - std. (gals.): 88 Oil capacity (qts.): 9 Wingspan (ft.-in) 36 Overall length (ft.): 29 Height (ft.-in): 9 ft. 4 in. Wing area (sq. ft.): 174 Wing loading (lbs./sq. ft.): 17.8 Power loading (lbs./hp.): 13.5 Wheel track (ft.): 9 Wheel size: 6.00 x 6 Seating capacity: 4 Cabin doors: 2 Cabin width (in.): 42 Cabin height (in.): 48.5 Baggage capacity (lbs.): 200 PERFORMANCE Cruise speed (knots): Altitude Speed 80% power: 6000 140 65% power: 8000 130 55% power: 10,000 121 Max range (with IFR reserve) (nm): 75% power: 6000 820 65% power: 10,000 910 55% power: 10,000 968 Fuel consumption (gph): 75% power @ 6000 ft.: 12.5 65% power @ 8000 ft.: 11.1 55% power @ 10,000 ft.: 9.5 Estimated endurance (65%) (hrs.): 7.0 Stall speed (gear, flaps up) (kts.): 56 Stall speed (gear, flaps down) (kts.): 50 Best rate of climb (fpm): 924 Best rate of climb (@8,000 ft.) (fpm): 565 (est.) Service ceiling (ft.): 18,100 Takeoff ground roll (ft.): 795 Takeoff over 50-ft. obstacle (ft.): 1514 Landing ground roll (ft.): 590 Landing over 50-ft. obstacle (ft.): 1350 --------------------------------------------- 1968 PIPER CHEROKEE 235C (N9474W) SPECIFICATIONS Engine make/model: Lycoming O-540-B4B5 Horsepower@altitude: 235@SL Horsepower for takeoff: 235 TBO hours: 2000 Fuel type: 100/100LL Propeller type: Hartzell CS Landing gear type: Tri/Fixed Max ramp weight (lbs.): 2900 Gross weight (lbs.): 2900 Landing weight (lbs.): 2900 Std. empty weight (lbs.): 1467 Useful load - std. (lbs.): 1433 Payload - full std. fuel (lbs.): 929 Usable fuel - std. (gals.): 84 Oil capacity (qts.): 12 Wingspan (ft.): 32 Overall length: 23 ft. 9 in. Height: 7 ft. 1 in. Wing area (sq. ft.): 171.6 Wing loading (lbs./sq. ft.): 17 Power loading (lbs./hp): 12.4 Wheel size (in.): 6.00 x 6 Seating capacity: 4 Cabin doors: 1 Cabin width (in.): 44 Cabin height (in.): 47 Baggage capacity (lbs.): 200 PERFORMANCE Cruise speed (knots): ALTITUDE SPEED 75% power: 8000 136 65% power: 8000 130 55% power: 8000 122 Max range (with reserve) (nm): 75% power: 813* 65% power: 879* 55% power: 949* Fuel consumption (@.42lbs./hp/hr.)(gph): 75% power: 12.3* 65% power: 10.7* 55% power: 9.0* Estimated endurance- 65% (hrs.): 6.5* Stall speed - flaps up (kts.): 57 Stall speed - flaps down (kts.): 52 Best rate of climb SL(fpm): 825 Best rate of climb, 8000 ft. (fpm): 500* Service ceiling (ft.) 14,500 Takeoff ground roll (ft.): 800 Takeoff over 50-ft. obstacle (ft.): 1360 Landing ground roll (ft.): 680 Landing over 50-ft. obstacle (ft.): 1300 * calculated Have you any idea of the correct figures? Plane and Pilot only shows a 1 knot difference in Vs. |
#10
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Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:40:26 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : Larry Dighera wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:06:16 GMT, john smith wrote in Message-Id: : I don't think Jay is going to be flying over Pike's Peak (14,110 feet) unless he gets a Cessna. :-) Service Ceiling PA28-235 ... 13,550 Service Ceiling C182.........17,700 He should be glad he didn't purchase a Charger: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprote...erf_1475B.html Cessna doesn't reveal the Skylane's useful load: http://skylane.cessna.com/spec_perf.chtml Is the Piper or Cessna able to carry the most payload with full tanks? keeping in mind that these are 1974 models... Pathfinder 182 average equipped new list price $36,490 $30,475 current values $63,000 $79,000 price appreciation factor 172% 259% gross weight (lbs) 3,000 2,950 empth weight (lbs) 1,550 1,645 useful load (lbs) 1,450 1,305 horsepower 235 230 power loading (lbs/hp) 12.8 12.8 wing loading (lbs/sqft) 17.6 16.9 Service Ceiling (ft) 13,550 17,700 total fuel capacity (gal) 82 79 payload, max fuel (lbs) 958 831 cruise speed, 75% (kts) 133 139 best rate of climb SL (fpm) 800 890 Vso 52 50 takeoff run (ft) 850 705 landing run (ft) 1,040 590 with a substantially shorter landing run due to the Pathfinder's more pronounced ground-effect If you are floating in ground effect, your approach speed is too fast for your landing weight! Have you got any cabin dimensions? Cabin dimensions found in the PIM's I have for each aircraft do not include baggage compartment volumes for either aircraft. |
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