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#1
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Sad Accident over Deland
After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville,
Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity there, it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a couple of days ago. I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing, which we found to be very disconcerting. The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident. In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and other planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch. I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely. Very sad. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#2
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Very sad indeed, horrible story.
I had my close encounters with jump planes more than enough. These are the very rare occasions that I want to have the military version of my plane including the hardware. -Kees |
#3
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Jay Honeck wrote:
After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville, Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity there, it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a couple of days ago. Um, Jay.. are you saying that they are dangerous? Or were they at a different comfort level than what you are used to? The pilot AND the jumper involved, according to their peers (who have posted about this incident), were VERY well known for their approach to safety. This was a case of Big Sky/Small plane that didnt quite work out. I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing, which we found to be very disconcerting. The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident. No. That pretty much sums it up.. Bleedouts suck. In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) I've seen pics of the jump plane heading down.. but I've never heard it described like that before. and other planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch. I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely. Yanno... A lot of people say the same thing about people flying them small planes. Very sad. Yes.. And honestly, I think that the fact that accidents such as this are so RARE is a testament to the safety of the system. Discussion among the jumpers, both on usenet and in their forum.. lists a grand total of maybe 4 people who have had fatal collisions with planes in God Knows How Long.. FOUR. In YEARS.. More people than that DIED in the past 3 days in Houston Texas Traffic car wrecks. Its unfortunate that two of the safest folks at the field (in the opinion of their peers) didn't see and avoid each other.. with tragic results. I flew into a drop zone on a private field a few years back.. The operation was professional the whole way, and I coordinated with the jump plane on the way in (and out) to avoid the flow of jumpers.. The jump pilots knew where all their chutes were, and when they were on the ground. I've personally not been to Deland, nor seen their operation, but if they were as haphazard as you suggest, wouldn't it be raining body parts from mangled meat-missles? Dave |
#4
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In article .net, Dave S wrote:
Yes.. And honestly, I think that the fact that accidents such as this are so RARE is a testament to the safety of the system. Discussion among the jumpers, both on usenet and in their forum.. lists a grand total of maybe 4 people who have had fatal collisions with planes in God Knows How Long.. FOUR. In YEARS.. More telling is that at skydiving's Oshkosh (the big convention at Quincy, Illinois) there are more injuries on the days they DON'T fly than on the days they do fly - and on the days they do fly there are several jumpships in the air at once and many skydivers in the air at once. They even jump out of a Boeing 727 on occasion. -- Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee" |
#5
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In article 4eqbe.16614$c24.11911@attbi_s72,
"Jay Honeck" wrote: I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing, which we found to be very disconcerting. The jumper was struck by the wing outboard of the left engine...he did not hit the prop. Did you just assume it was a prop strike because of the amputations? In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and other planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch. Your minds eye needs an adjustment. I wasn't there but I've made many skydives and hauled even more loads of skydivers. The jump planes do not dive "through an absolute crowd of skydivers". What a bunch of crap! Jump pilots do try to be as efficient as possible getting a quick turnaround for the next load. That doesn't mean we operate in a reckless manner with "getting back for the next load" being the only thing we're concentrating on. If you took the time to talk to some jump pilots, or better yet ride with them, you'll find that the jump pilot probably has a much better situational awareness then the usual GA pilot coming into an airport. The jump pilot is well aware that he will be descending into the airport area, that a midair collision risk is high. He will take precautions/use procedures that help to lower the risk. Just because an operation is outside your comfort zone or experience level Jay does not mean it's unsafe or reckless. This was a tragic accident. As another posted stated both the victim and the pilot are known for being very safe operators. And for the poster who made the comment about wanting the military gear on his airplane because of jump planes...that made me laugh. You can't imagine the number of times I've wished I had guns mounted on the jump plane because of the unthinking, uncaring morons who come blasting through a published, charted parachute operation placing themselves, their passengers and the jumpers in great peril. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#6
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"Roger" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:11:44 GMT, "Jay Honeck" wrote: After landing in Deland, FL just last month (on our way to Titusville, Florida), and witnessing the almost unbelievable sky-diving activity there, it came as no surprise to read that there was a fatal accident there a couple of days ago. I was especially saddened to see that the man who was killed had his legs severed by the prop of a Turbo Otter -- the very twins they use as jump-planes in Deland. Some of you may recall my post about how those Otters were "diving into the base leg of the pattern" as we were landing, which we found to be very disconcerting. The poor guy survived long enough to land safely, only to bleed out on the ground. It's hard to imagine a more horrifying accident. In my mind's eye I can picture the scene exactly. Those Otters diving through an absolute *crowd* of skydivers under canopy (literally!) and other planes in the pattern, trying to get back on the ground as quickly as possible to haul up the next load -- it gave me the willies to watch. I was saddended to hear it too. I can't speak for that airport, but I've flown in and out of Zypher Hills many times watching and fitting in with he jump planes and jumpers. The jump planes do follow a pattern albeit steep and the only way I see one coming near a jumper is if the jumper is way out of position, or ends up landing on the runway. The Jump planes are normally well away from the jumpers. I guess the only surprising thing is that this happens so rarely. I'm surprised it happens with a jumper and their jump plane, but not is it was some one passing through. You'd be amazed at how many end up tooling through a jump zone. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com Very sad. Even Notams don't work sometimes. I remember like it was yesterday; standing at the Blues Com Trailer with John Patton of the Blue Angels at the Reading Show in 74. Tony Less took the Diamond straight up for the Diamond Loop. Both Patton and I saw the Cherokee 140 at the same time. John had a hot mike in his had and direct contact with Tony in Blue 1. The formation went right past the Cherokee before either of us could speak. We discovered in the post flight brief that none of the team saw the Cherokee, and to this day, I honestly believe the pilot in the Cherokee must have seen the team go by him. We judged he was close enough that his pants were stained when he landed at where ever he was headed. There are NOTAMS issued on the Blues performance times, and the field is closed for traffic during demonstrations. We checked. All the NOTAMS were intact. The times were correct. The guy in the Cherokee didn't read the NOTAMS and wasn't advised either. He simply wandered in and flew right through the restricted airspace unannounced and uninvited. It happens!!!! Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet (take out the trash :-) |
#7
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Newps wrote:
That's why it's stupid to skydive into an airport. By the same argument, it's stupid to fly near an airport. Sure makes it convenient to get on the airplane. These accidents happen every year. Really? I can only think of this happenning one time bofore when a meat bomb took out a cherokee. |
#8
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Larry Dighera wrote:
Of course, FARs* require pilots to obtain _ALL_ available information before flight. Given today's pop-up Temporary Flight Restrictions, it is even more important to check NOTAMs during the preflight briefing. The FSS briefer or DUATS should have issued the NOTAM related to the parachute activity. And if ATC is providing Radar Advisory Service, the controller providing traffic advisories would have warned of the hot drop zone. If this is a regularly active drop zone, it gets published in the A/FD and perhaps a parachute symbol on the chart, and there no longer is any NOTAM for the briefer to report. They expect you to check the chart and A/FD as part of your preflight planning. ATC, workload permitting, is always a good thing to try, but not foolproof. |
#9
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In article ,
Newps wrote: That's why it's stupid to skydive into an airport. These accidents happen every year. Which accidents? There have been a few cases of jumpers in freefall having a collision with an aircraft in flight but this is the first case I've heard of a jumper under canopy being hit. And folks in the sport that have been around a lot longer than I have don't remember this ever happening before. You have date or place? The biggest problem I've seen with jumping on a public airport is the GA pilot that can't deal with an unusual situation, or doesn't take the time to educate himself on his destination. -- Dale L. Falk There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing around with airplanes. http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html |
#10
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Jay Honeck wrote:
That's no different than when I'm working the pattern in Iowa City for an hour. Familiarity with the pattern should allow for greater situational awareness, if the pilot is on his/hers toes. When you work in the pattern for hours a day, every day, for years, then you can compare your situational awareness to that of a jump pilot, especially at Deland or other large operations where they have the best of them. but their greater speed and ability to stop on a dime using beta thrust made it all work out okay. Of course it all worked out okay. The jump pilot never had any doubt it would. They weren't taking a chance, they knew how much space they had, what the typical GA aircraft is capable of, what their aircraft is capable of, and how to maneuver around you. I ran across effectively the same situation in the pattern when I was a student in a C152 with a Bonanza sharing the pattern. Get this - I felt unsafe FOLLOWING this plane at the distance my instructor told me. It was TOO CLOSE to be safe. Yet guess what? He was probably on the ground a good few minutes before I turned final. Just because I wasn't experienced enough at the time to be comfortable, doesn't mean the situation was unsafe. In your case, you weren't experienced enough to be comfortable with it, yet "it all worked out okay" because the jump pilot made sure it did. It wasn't just coincidence. |
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