Jepp vs NOS at PRB

Doug Campbell wrote:

I was training with Jepp charts, and my partner (safety pilot) had NOS, and
we
were attempting the VOR DME (GPS) B approach into Paso Robles. The Jepp
chart shows the procedure turn (when starting at the VOR, not the arc)

You guys need some chart instruction. Look at the profile view of the NOS
chart. The descending thick black line marked 133 degrees starts at ILSIC.
(PRB 133/3 DME). That is the procedure turn fix, without ambiguity.

wrote in message ...


Doug Campbell wrote:

I was training with Jepp charts, and my partner (safety pilot) had NOS,
and
we
were attempting the VOR DME (GPS) B approach into Paso Robles. The Jepp
chart shows the procedure turn (when starting at the VOR, not the arc)

You guys need some chart instruction. Look at the profile view of the NOS
chart. The descending thick black line marked 133 degrees starts at
ILSIC.
(PRB 133/3 DME). That is the procedure turn fix, without ambiguity.



I'm wondering if the NACO chart shows the barb at EXUPY as a *recommended*
PT commencement point, because one can initiate a nice three degree
stabilized descent from there.

Stan

On Wed, 5 May 2004 16:55:57 -0500, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

I'm wondering if the NACO chart shows the barb at EXUPY as a *recommended*
PT commencement point, because one can initiate a nice three degree
stabilized descent from there.

According to what others have written in the past, it is there only for
charting convenience. In other words, whoever designed the chart thought
things would look less cluttered that way.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 16:55:57 -0500, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

I'm wondering if the NACO chart shows the barb at EXUPY as a
*recommended*
PT commencement point, because one can initiate a nice three degree
stabilized descent from there.

According to what others have written in the past, it is there only for
charting convenience. In other words, whoever designed the chart thought
things would look less cluttered that way.


Yes, it could have been purely for that reason. However, it seems that the
PT barb could have easily been shown inside 10 DME without clutter. And it
is interesting that EXUPY is the point at which a three degree descent would
begin to the VOR, and that invites speculation as to coincidence or intent.
One could do worse than choosing EXUPY as a point for initiating the PT.
Coming in from IAF KIKII, one would begin descent from 3600 at EXUPY, and a
stabilized 3 degree descent could be made all the way to the airport from
there, and it seems possible that the charting person chose to show the PT
barb outside EXUPY, on the 3600 ft segment, as a suggestion to the pilot as
to where to execute the PT. Since s/he has the discretion.....

Stan

On Wed, 5 May 2004 18:15:44 -0500, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 5 May 2004 16:55:57 -0500, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

I'm wondering if the NACO chart shows the barb at EXUPY as a
*recommended*
PT commencement point, because one can initiate a nice three degree
stabilized descent from there.

According to what others have written in the past, it is there only for
charting convenience. In other words, whoever designed the chart thought
things would look less cluttered that way.


Yes, it could have been purely for that reason. However, it seems that the
PT barb could have easily been shown inside 10 DME without clutter. And it
is interesting that EXUPY is the point at which a three degree descent would
begin to the VOR, and that invites speculation as to coincidence or intent.
One could do worse than choosing EXUPY as a point for initiating the PT.
Coming in from IAF KIKII, one would begin descent from 3600 at EXUPY, and a
stabilized 3 degree descent could be made all the way to the airport from
there, and it seems possible that the charting person chose to show the PT
barb outside EXUPY, on the 3600 ft segment, as a suggestion to the pilot as
to where to execute the PT. Since s/he has the discretion.....

Stan



I don't use NACO charts so that's why I ask these questions:

Do you have any documentation to indicate that the location of barb
placement on a NACO chart is determined by this method?

Is it a standard for NACO charts that the barb is placed at the 3° descent
point?


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2004 16:55:57 -0500, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

I'm wondering if the NACO chart shows the barb at EXUPY as a *recommended*
PT commencement point, because one can initiate a nice three degree
stabilized descent from there.

According to what others have written in the past, it is there only for
charting convenience. In other words, whoever designed the chart thought
things would look less cluttered that way.


The barb is charting convention. The procedure turn limited and side of course
is regulatory.