TRSA and /X

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

They are left-over from when Class C airspace was called an ARSA.


Actually, they're left over from an even earlier time.



The main difference between an ARSA and a TRSA was that the former
required participation, while the latter did not. Then, and now, the TRSA
is sort of "in-between" Class C (mandatory radar services) and Class D
(no radar services).


TRSAs provide a service in-between Class C service and Basic Radar service.
There are some terminal radar facilities that do not have Class B or Class C
airspace and are not TRSAs, these facilities provide Basic Radar service.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R22812C3B



The bottom line here is that TRSAs exist where there's a terminal radar
facility (approach/departure control), but where there's not enough
traffic to justify mandatory participation (as is the case for Class C, or
Class B for that matter).


But TRSAs do not exist at all such locations. Facilities that provide Basic
Radar service are identified on sectional charts by a small blue circle with
an R in it near the airport name.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3E722C3B



It's really just Class E airspace, where radar
services are being provided by a terminal controller rather than a center
(enroute) controller (that's a bit of an oversimplification too, but it's
the basic idea).


It's Class D and Class E airspace.



The boundaries show you where the terminal controller provides the radar
services rather than the center controller. The only difference in radar
services is who is providing them; it's still just your run-of-the-mill
Class E services, which are optional wherever you are.


That's not correct. The charted TRSA boundary is well within the
center/approach boundary. The terminal facility provides services on both
sides of the TRSA boundary, probably by the same controller as well.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

It's not an inbetween anything. It's not a class of controlled airspace.

They're not a class of controlled airspace, that's certainly true, but TRSA
services are definitely in-between Basic Radar services and Class C
services.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

I don't understand your statement. I've never heard of a TRSA existing in
Class G airspace. All of the ones I've seen have been in Class E
airspace, which certainly is controlled airspace.


TRSAs exist in Class D and Class E airspace, but are not a type of
controlled airspace.

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...

I have yet to see a TRSA encompass class G airspace (other than the
presumption that ground to 700 feet is included) but from a logical
standpoint it seems counterintuitive to provide "control" to traffic in
"uncontrolled" airspace.


The only place TRSAs reach the surface is within the core Class D surface
area. The outer boundary of a TRSA does not extend below the base altitude
of Class E airspace.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B843C3B

Thanks. I was aware of the voluntary nature of TRSA's,
which is why I specified VFR and asked if participation was
encouraged/permitted, not required. Let me ask the same
question in a more practical setting.

If you were flying XC VFR /X and your direct route took you
through a TRSA would you make a call and try to participate,
descend to fly under/alter course to avoid, or just fly on
through?

"Bob Gardner" wrote:

AIM 3-5-6 says that participation by VFR pilots is voluntary...and for IFR
pilots, TRSA's don't even exist in Part 71.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
.. .
Is VFR participation by a non transponder equipped aircraft
encouraged/permitted in a TRSA?

Thanks.

wrote:
Thanks. I was aware of the voluntary nature of TRSA's,
which is why I specified VFR and asked if participation was
encouraged/permitted, not required. Let me ask the same
question in a more practical setting.

If you were flying XC VFR /X and your direct route took you
through a TRSA would you make a call and try to participate,
descend to fly under/alter course to avoid, or just fly on
through?

I'd vote for making a call and and trying to participate. Worst that can happen
is "unable VFR advisories". I don't think there's any right answer.

wrote:
If you were flying XC VFR /X and your direct route took you
through a TRSA would you make a call and try to participate,
descend to fly under/alter course to avoid, or just fly on
through?

If it were me, I would just punch up the TRSA frequency and
monitor it, keeping up a good visual lookout while flying on
through (and avoiding the Class D). Based on I was hearing on
the frequency I may or may not want to check in with them.

wrote in message
...

Thanks. I was aware of the voluntary nature of TRSA's,
which is why I specified VFR and asked if participation was
encouraged/permitted, not required. Let me ask the same
question in a more practical setting.

If you were flying XC VFR /X and your direct route took you
through a TRSA would you make a call and try to participate,
descend to fly under/alter course to avoid, or just fly on
through?


I'd make a call and try to participate. ATC may or may not be able to
provide services, it all depends on whether they can see an adequate primary
radar target. I wouldn't alter my course or altitude in any case.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but according to the AIM, TRSAs provide
separation between participating VFR aircraft. In class C airspace, there
is only separation between VFR & IFR aircraft. The AIM makes it sound like
TRSAs offer participating aircraft a higher level of separation services
than class C radar services.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

They are left-over from when Class C airspace was called an ARSA.


Actually, they're left over from an even earlier time.



The main difference between an ARSA and a TRSA was that the former
required participation, while the latter did not. Then, and now, the
TRSA
is sort of "in-between" Class C (mandatory radar services) and Class D
(no radar services).


TRSAs provide a service in-between Class C service and Basic Radar
service.
There are some terminal radar facilities that do not have Class B or Class
C
airspace and are not TRSAs, these facilities provide Basic Radar service.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R22812C3B



The bottom line here is that TRSAs exist where there's a terminal radar
facility (approach/departure control), but where there's not enough
traffic to justify mandatory participation (as is the case for Class C,
or
Class B for that matter).


But TRSAs do not exist at all such locations. Facilities that provide
Basic
Radar service are identified on sectional charts by a small blue circle
with
an R in it near the airport name.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3E722C3B



It's really just Class E airspace, where radar
services are being provided by a terminal controller rather than a center
(enroute) controller (that's a bit of an oversimplification too, but it's
the basic idea).


It's Class D and Class E airspace.



The boundaries show you where the terminal controller provides the radar
services rather than the center controller. The only difference in radar
services is who is providing them; it's still just your run-of-the-mill
Class E services, which are optional wherever you are.


That's not correct. The charted TRSA boundary is well within the
center/approach boundary. The terminal facility provides services on both
sides of the TRSA boundary, probably by the same controller as well.

"Brad Zeigler" wrote in message
...

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but according to the AIM, TRSAs provide
separation between participating VFR aircraft. In class C airspace, there
is only separation between VFR & IFR aircraft. The AIM makes it sound
like TRSAs offer participating aircraft a higher level of separation
services than class C radar services.


I suppose that depends on what you consider a higher level of separation
services to be. In Class C airspace IFR aircraft are separated from all
other aircraft, but in TRSAs they're only separated from other participating
aircraft.