Knowledge????

2G wrote on 12/28/2020 11:19 PM:
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:41:14 AM UTC-8, Bob Leve wrote:
I'm amazed at the number of seeming experts who are littering this site with passionately uninformed opinions yet don't seem to have the credentials or expertise of an infectious disease MD or actual governmental experience..
Lets get back to what this site is about: Sharing information about the wonderful sport of soaring!

You're right (that they are not MDs). However, we have leaders who also aren't MDs but believe and act like they are. So, let's hear from some real experts:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0
This study ranks the effectiveness of virtually all COVID interventions by various governments. It is shocking that certain popular measures (closing restaurants and crisis management plans) might actually be doing more harm than good. And the wearing of masks is fundamentally ineffective as determined by 3 of 4 analysis methods. And our national expert, Tony Fauci, admits that he is "nudging" his herd immunity level based on public polls! Sorry, but this is a *******ization of science. And he is far from being the only one.

There was no "*******ization of science" in Dr. Fauci's public remarks early on, because he was
trying to educate laymen, not reporting to other scientists. He had to do so when there was no
vaccine or reliable measurements of the virus transmissibility, so the estimates of the
percentage of vaccinations needed for herd immunity spanned a wide range. He chose a number
towards the lower end of the guesses, because he thought it would serve the public interest
better, and told us we really didn't know for sure.

But I agree there were some that did distort the science in their announcements, but the big
majority of the public soon learned to choose Dr. Fauci, and those like him, over the
"downplayers".


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 11:15:30 AM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 12/28/2020 11:19 PM:
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:41:14 AM UTC-8, Bob Leve wrote:
I'm amazed at the number of seeming experts who are littering this site with passionately uninformed opinions yet don't seem to have the credentials or expertise of an infectious disease MD or actual governmental experience..
Lets get back to what this site is about: Sharing information about the wonderful sport of soaring!

You're right (that they are not MDs). However, we have leaders who also aren't MDs but believe and act like they are. So, let's hear from some real experts:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0
This study ranks the effectiveness of virtually all COVID interventions by various governments. It is shocking that certain popular measures (closing restaurants and crisis management plans) might actually be doing more harm than good. And the wearing of masks is fundamentally ineffective as determined by 3 of 4 analysis methods. And our national expert, Tony Fauci, admits that he is "nudging" his herd immunity level based on public polls! Sorry, but this is a *******ization of science. And he is far from being the only one.

There was no "*******ization of science" in Dr. Fauci's public remarks early on, because he was
trying to educate laymen, not reporting to other scientists. He had to do so when there was no
vaccine or reliable measurements of the virus transmissibility, so the estimates of the
percentage of vaccinations needed for herd immunity spanned a wide range. He chose a number
towards the lower end of the guesses, because he thought it would serve the public interest
better, and told us we really didn't know for sure.

But I agree there were some that did distort the science in their announcements, but the big
majority of the public soon learned to choose Dr. Fauci, and those like him, over the
"downplayers".


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


We must absolutely be talking about two completely different, but totally valid Anthony Faucis.

The one I saw on live television in February of this year stated "americans have nothing to worry about" when asked about the threat of Covid-19. He did that interview on Fox News. A week later he did another interview on USA Today where he added exactly one sentence as a qualifier and that was "those who travel" might face some risks.

February, 2020.
If that was not downplaying the risk, what is it exactly that you call it?

One month prior, January of 2020, Trump issued travel restrictions that applied to China.

Facts -

Seattle diagnosed the first three cases of Covid-19 in the United States. The doctors saw a common set of symptoms in two patients and developed a protocol. Why? because the CDC had none. The CDC didn't have one for another month and a half AFTER these patients were being treated. The doctors saw a common thread with two previous patients and retested blood samples only to find they had two more cases on their hands.

While I think it's great and it's grand that you have enormous trust in Fauci, I'm puzzled how it is you do not see him as a....what was that term? Oh yeah, a "Downplayer".

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:15:30 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 12/28/2020 11:19 PM:
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:41:14 AM UTC-8, Bob Leve wrote:
I'm amazed at the number of seeming experts who are littering this site with passionately uninformed opinions yet don't seem to have the credentials or expertise of an infectious disease MD or actual governmental experience..
Lets get back to what this site is about: Sharing information about the wonderful sport of soaring!

You're right (that they are not MDs). However, we have leaders who also aren't MDs but believe and act like they are. So, let's hear from some real experts:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01009-0
This study ranks the effectiveness of virtually all COVID interventions by various governments. It is shocking that certain popular measures (closing restaurants and crisis management plans) might actually be doing more harm than good. And the wearing of masks is fundamentally ineffective as determined by 3 of 4 analysis methods. And our national expert, Tony Fauci, admits that he is "nudging" his herd immunity level based on public polls! Sorry, but this is a *******ization of science. And he is far from being the only one.

There was no "*******ization of science" in Dr. Fauci's public remarks early on, because he was
trying to educate laymen, not reporting to other scientists. He had to do so when there was no
vaccine or reliable measurements of the virus transmissibility, so the estimates of the
percentage of vaccinations needed for herd immunity spanned a wide range. He chose a number
towards the lower end of the guesses, because he thought it would serve the public interest
better, and told us we really didn't know for sure.

But I agree there were some that did distort the science in their announcements, but the big
majority of the public soon learned to choose Dr. Fauci, and those like him, over the
"downplayers".


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Eric,

Tony Fauci is on video saying he "nudged" the percentage of inoculation to reach herd immunity w/o ANY science reference to justify it. This implies his original threshold was merely a guess. This IS a *******ization of science since it lends a degree of precision to his comments w/o ANY scientific basis.

Tom

The politics of Covid is astounding.

For those of you who question the effectiveness of masks...oh my

I am a dentist. We have been wearing masks 100% of the time in our offices from the beginning.
We require all patients/delivery persons/anyone who enters our office to be wearing a mask that covers BOTH their mouth and nose.
No...we do not allow mouth shields or face shields in place of a mask. They are not the same thing at all.

From January 2020 through September 2020, less than 1% of all people who work in a dental office have tested positive for Covid.
A dental office is probably the most dangerous place you could be with regards to an airborne infectious particle.
Our handpieces blow air in the mouth which ejects the oral contents into the surrounding air in a mist.
Our instuments to clean teeth (ultrasonic scalers) create the finest of mists.
Yet, less than 1% have tested positive. Remember, all these people spend most of their time outside of the dental office so it speaks well of their behaviour outside of the office also.

I took a walk today in my town's park. Here in California we are having the most significant of all Covid surges. My local hospitals have ICUs that are 100+% full.
The dog park had more people than I have seen in many months. AND...there were less masks inside that dog park than inside my car.

That is why we are having this problem.

Now, let us talk about soaring.

Guy Acheson wrote on 12/29/2020 6:30 PM:
The politics of Covid is astounding.

For those of you who question the effectiveness of masks...oh my

I am a dentist. We have been wearing masks 100% of the time in our offices from the beginning.
We require all patients/delivery persons/anyone who enters our office to be wearing a mask that covers BOTH their mouth and nose.
No...we do not allow mouth shields or face shields in place of a mask. They are not the same thing at all.

From January 2020 through September 2020, less than 1% of all people who work in a dental office have tested positive for Covid.
A dental office is probably the most dangerous place you could be with regards to an airborne infectious particle.
Our handpieces blow air in the mouth which ejects the oral contents into the surrounding air in a mist.
Our instuments to clean teeth (ultrasonic scalers) create the finest of mists.
Yet, less than 1% have tested positive. Remember, all these people spend most of their time outside of the dental office so it speaks well of their behaviour outside of the office also.

I took a walk today in my town's park. Here in California we are having the most significant of all Covid surges. My local hospitals have ICUs that are 100+% full.
The dog park had more people than I have seen in many months. AND...there were less masks inside that dog park than inside my car.

That is why we are having this problem.

Now, let us talk about soaring.

Thank you, Guy.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 6:30:38 PM UTC-8, Guy Acheson wrote:
The politics of Covid is astounding.

For those of you who question the effectiveness of masks...oh my

I am a dentist. We have been wearing masks 100% of the time in our offices from the beginning.
We require all patients/delivery persons/anyone who enters our office to be wearing a mask that covers BOTH their mouth and nose.
No...we do not allow mouth shields or face shields in place of a mask. They are not the same thing at all.

From January 2020 through September 2020, less than 1% of all people who work in a dental office have tested positive for Covid.
A dental office is probably the most dangerous place you could be with regards to an airborne infectious particle.
Our handpieces blow air in the mouth which ejects the oral contents into the surrounding air in a mist.
Our instuments to clean teeth (ultrasonic scalers) create the finest of mists.
Yet, less than 1% have tested positive. Remember, all these people spend most of their time outside of the dental office so it speaks well of their behaviour outside of the office also.

I took a walk today in my town's park. Here in California we are having the most significant of all Covid surges. My local hospitals have ICUs that are 100+% full.
The dog park had more people than I have seen in many months. AND...there were less masks inside that dog park than inside my car.

That is why we are having this problem.

Now, let us talk about soaring.

The gold-standard mask, the N-95 (which you can't get), properly worn and fitted, filters particles down to 135 nm; coronavirus particles are 70-90 nm.. Let's go more extreme, the Stryker Flyte Helmet (https://www.stryker.com/us/en/orthop...on-system.html) used in high-risk areas for its filtered air supply; this helmet IS INEFFECTIVE in protecting wearers from COVID (https://link.springer.com/article/10...-020-04796-3):

"Sterile surgical helmet systems (SSHS) do not protect against aerosol particulate and therefore are not efficacious in protection against COVID-19. The fan system employed may even increase risk to the surgeon by drawing in particulates as well as delay recognition of intraoperative cues, such as exhaust from diathermy, that point to respirator mask leak."

Now, tell me again how effective those cheap, throw-away masks are.

Tom

Oh well. Nice try.............

RFH

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:41:14 AM UTC-7, Bob Leve wrote:
I'm amazed at the number of seeming experts who are littering this site with passionately uninformed opinions yet don't seem to have the credentials or expertise of an infectious disease MD or actual governmental experience.
Lets get back to what this site is about: Sharing information about the wonderful sport of soaring!

If you believe in covaids and go recreational flying are you an immoral person?

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 6:10:09 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
If you believe in covaids and go recreational flying are you an immoral person?
The biggest tragedy is the influence of politics to science. If not for the political differences we wouldn't be having this discussion. Science should be science not something influenced by our ignorant (soon to be not) president.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 8:48:39 PM UTC-5, Bob Caldwell (BC) wrote:
On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 6:10:09 PM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
If you believe in covaids and go recreational flying are you an immoral person?
The biggest tragedy is the influence of politics to science. If not for the political differences we wouldn't be having this discussion. Science should be science not something influenced by our ignorant (soon to be not) president.

Remember bright boy that Science created the mutating-enhance Covid and that your choices on how to deal with it in your life circle was overall left to you. Masks will never stop Covid, only delay. If you want to follow the California plan, fine....hide in your hole. When you surface, Covid III awaits you.
Control is a crap shoot and the President was simply keeping the food chain working to feed your sorry ass.
A Colorado Idiot no doubt.
R