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#21
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
gatt wrote:
Tell it to the insurance company or your passengers if you prang the landing because, say, you've never carried passengers in the back of a C-172 before and, say, you hit a windshear on final. Ferry pilots don't carry unwitting passengers in back when they're overgross. They might if they hadn't already loaded it to capacity with fuel. Ferrying operations are a good example of flying overgrossed successfully. Unfortunately, the cabin is usually stuffed with fuel bladders so there's no room for passengers unless they want to ride outside in the smoking section. -- Mortimer Schnerd, RN mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com |
#22
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
So how is the conversation going to go?...Listen, I've never flown
with passengers in the back before. The plane is also over the legal limit, but I think the numbers aren't too bad. Unless of course you really aren't the 200lb you claim and are more like 225lbs.... and the luggage is heavier than we think. Maybe I should use a scale and actually see what the weight being put in the plane really is....Nah,,,,but anyway, I posted it online, and everyone said we should be OK because those funny engineers put in a fudge factor, so the numbers listed don't really need to be followed..... It's not like Burt Rutan is flying his buddies to the Hilton Ranch... With all due respect to the original poster, I'd really reconsider this outing as planned.... |
#23
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Apr 17, 1:54*pm, WingFlaps wrote:
Are you saying you don't do a MAUW test flight in your training? That is exactly what he is saying. It's also pretty normal these days to get a license in a 4-seater (Skyhawk or Warrior) without ever having anyone in the back seat or coming anywhere near gross weight. Michael |
#24
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
WingFlaps wrote:
Tell it to the insurance company or your passengers if you prang the landing because, say, you've never carried passengers in the back of a C-172 before and, say, you hit a windshear on final. Are you saying you don't do a MAUW test flight in your training? I don't see anything I've written anywhere above that suggests such a thing. -c |
#25
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
WingFlaps wrote:
This is ridiculous. How on earth do you think ferry flights work, they can be way over MTOW but the wings don't rip off do they? A 172 it's not going to notice a measely 40lbs over MTOW unless the COG is wrong. We all know about ferry flights, flown by a lone professional. Professional ferry pilots don't ask anonymous Usenet posters how they think the plane will fly, either. Would you tell the passengers that the airplane is over it's manufacturer specified takeoff weight limit, and allow them the free will to get off? If you wouldn't do that... If someone did get off, the problem is solved! G I fly at max gross all the time, as my plane needs serious ballast to be in CG with two big guys up front. I agree the wings won't fall off at ferry flight weights. Think of how important a small spot of water or a fouled plug, that might not have been a big deal within limits, becomes when overweight. Think of how airplanes gain weight, and engines lose performance as they age. The unwitting passengers and the "if you have to ask as a pilot" part of this equation that bugs me. |
#26
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
On Apr 17, 11:52 am, gatt wrote:
Tell it to the insurance company or your passengers if you prang the landing because, say, you've never carried passengers in the back of a C-172 before and, say, you hit a windshear on final. Knowingly taking off over gross invalidates any insurance. Hurt or kill a passenger and see what the judge has to say about it. Dan |
#27
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"tman" inv@lid wrote in message news Flown C172's for quite a while, and never had anybody in the back. Now I'm planning on quite a trip, with 2 pax and luggage. When I fill the fuel to the *tabs*, calc everyone's weight honestly and consider baggage -- I'm 75 lbs over the 2450 gross on departure. Maybe 100 over gross if I assume a "lie about weight" factor or some inaccuracy with filling the tanks. Now I'm scratching my head about just how risky this is. I know (others) have pushed over gross in these planes way more under worse conditions, and have almost always gotten away with it. I'm inclined to just do it, and be cognizant that it will perform differently, i.e. don't expect the same picture on climbout that you would when solo. Risky? Or just roundoff error on the weight? Here are some other factors: This is the 160HP C172, standard. Departure runway is 5000'. No steep terrain to climb out of. Plenty of alternates along with the way with 3000 runways. Not particularly hot, humid, or high. 50 degrees at 1000 MSL for departure or any point of landing. I'm figuring I'm 3% over gross, causing most of my V speeds to increase 1.5%, so say -- instead of flying short final at 65 knots, I'd fly at 66 knots... OK wait I can't hold airspeed to +/- 1 knot on most days anyways. I'm thinking through many of the factors, and it is only a "little" over gross, only on the first hour or so of the trip. What else should I be aware of? Am I dangerous? T Unless your working with a over gross authority and a special airworthyness certificate then keep it legal and stay within gross limits. Other wise cessna 172's fly good 30% over if you have a long run way and healthy engine and good cool temps. As for Speeds that a hit amd miss each airplane is diffrent when over gross. Am I dangerous? if you have not been properly instructed on flying over weight aircraft the answer is yes. |
#28
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"Jay Somerset" wrote in message ... I would be much more concerned with the BALANCE part of W&B. Yes, 100 pounds over gross is not wise, at it reduces your safety margin with turbulence, and landing and takeoff distances. But you really need to make sure that your CG is not out of the allowable range -- with rear-seat pax and luggage, it could be pretty far back. Also, you have specific weight limits in the rear luggage area -- it's all in the POH. So, but your heaviest passenger in the front seat, and the lightest luggage in the rear area, and see where your CG lies. Yawn!!!! |
#29
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
... On Apr 17, 2:53 am, tman inv@lid wrote: Flown C172's for quite a while, and never had anybody in the back. Now I'm planning on quite a trip, with 2 pax and luggage. The biggest problem with flying a little overgross is the same problem with flying at high density altitude. The plane will perform different and a pilot who isn't expecting this can run into serious problems. The site picture over the nose will look a bit different. This is why I always teach my students to climb out on airspeed. I know some CFIs focus on the site pitch picture but that only works with consistant weight, altitude, etc. Many pilots have bitten the big one because they keep pulling the nose up when climbing out of mountain airports until they stall it. They keep trying to achieve the site picture their CFI taught them down in the valley. -robert, CFII Agree Agree!!!! |
#30
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Should I be scared -- C172 over Gross
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ... tman wrote: Flown C172's for quite a while, and never had anybody in the back. Now I'm planning on quite a trip, with 2 pax and luggage. When I fill the fuel to the *tabs*, calc everyone's weight honestly and consider baggage -- I'm 75 lbs over the 2450 gross on departure. Maybe 100 over gross if I assume a "lie about weight" factor or some inaccuracy with filling the tanks. Now I'm scratching my head about just how risky this is. I know (others) have pushed over gross in these planes way more under worse conditions, and have almost always gotten away with it. I'm inclined to just do it, and be cognizant that it will perform differently, i.e. don't expect the same picture on climbout that you would when solo. Risky? Or just roundoff error on the weight? Here are some other factors: This is the 160HP C172, standard. Departure runway is 5000'. No steep terrain to climb out of. Plenty of alternates along with the way with 3000 runways. Not particularly hot, humid, or high. 50 degrees at 1000 MSL for departure or any point of landing. I'm figuring I'm 3% over gross, causing most of my V speeds to increase 1.5%, so say -- instead of flying short final at 65 knots, I'd fly at 66 knots... OK wait I can't hold airspeed to +/- 1 knot on most days anyways. I'm thinking through many of the factors, and it is only a "little" over gross, only on the first hour or so of the trip. What else should I be aware of? Am I dangerous? T I never advise a pilot to load any airplane over gross. I will tell you that the big killer in these situations is the cg location, especially the aft cg. Tell you what; instead of my "advising you" on what to do specifically with this flight, let me suggest to you that you run a weight and balance for this aircraft at full tanks, THEN run the same pax and baggage loading figuring 1/4 tanks, just to see what this does to the cg. -- Dudley Henriques Making a Tail Skidder out of a 172 even a 182 when the pilot gets out is fun!!!! 30% over gross Extreme Aft CG Utterly Priceless and FUN!!! But all in a days work. Here is a sample for a PA28... http://aircraftdelivery.net/ferrypil...nkedpermit.pdf Will scan in a 172 and 182 when I have time... Don't fly over Gross unless approved to do so and have been instructed on techniques you can end up a wet stain on the ground. |
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