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Corvair conversion engines



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 19th 06, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines


"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
oups.com...

I just think hanging a prop on a crank directly is a non-starter in
the first place...especially on a crank and case not specifically
designed for this in the first palce. Maybe a good redrive and flywheel
would be a better way to go?


That is my opinion, also.
--
Jim in NC

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  #22  
Old January 20th 06, 12:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines

When it really gets down to facts, most often aircraft engines really
don't cost any more than auto conversions and the aircraft engine
appears to be more reliable.
No redrives needed, redundant ignition and lots of other things that
makes them better.

I was a firm believer in auto engine conversions but i haven't seen many
last a long time except for the Subaru and Rotax engines.



Morgans wrote:

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
oups.com...


I just think hanging a prop on a crank directly is a non-starter in
the first place...especially on a crank and case not specifically
designed for this in the first palce. Maybe a good redrive and flywheel
would be a better way to go?



That is my opinion, also.

  #23  
Old January 20th 06, 12:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines


wrote in message ...
When it really gets down to facts, most often aircraft engines really
don't cost any more than auto conversions and the aircraft engine
appears to be more reliable.
No redrives needed, redundant ignition and lots of other things that
makes them better.

I was a firm believer in auto engine conversions but i haven't seen many
last a long time except for the Subaru and Rotax engines.


There are many V-6's running, some significant numbers, time wise.

VW's flying all over the place.

Mercedes diesels in what, Thielert brand name?

Oh, by the way, Rotax is NOT an auto conversion.
--
Jim in NC
  #25  
Old January 20th 06, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:38:52 -0600,
wrote:


When it really gets down to facts, most often aircraft engines really
don't cost any more than auto conversions and the aircraft engine
appears to be more reliable.
No redrives needed, redundant ignition and lots of other things that
makes them better.

I was a firm believer in auto engine conversions but i haven't seen many
last a long time except for the Subaru and Rotax engines.



I bought two 3.8L Ford V6's for $150 each, bought new pistons from
Roush racing, new rings, had the best block shot peened bored and
honed, had the best crank turned and nitrided, bought new bearings,
new cam, new distributer with two sensors installed for dual ignition,
new pistons, new timing gears and chain, planed the heads, had four
new intake valves installed and new guides installed as well, new
valve springs, roller rockers, new lifters, new carburetor, old style
NWAero psru, ARP studs for the crank bearings and cylinderheads,
fabricated my own headers, and STILL spent only about $6,000.

Now, how much does one pay for a remanufactured aircraft engine of 200
horsepower?

Corky Scott


I don't think there's any dispute over the relative cost of engines.
This issue is longevity and whether one wants to fly an airplane with an
engine that might not make it to the next airport.




  #26  
Old January 20th 06, 04:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines

I just think hanging a prop on a crank directly is a non-starter in
the first place...especially on a crank and case not specifically
designed for this in the first palce. Maybe a good redrive and flywheel
would be a better way to go?


That is my opinion, also.
--

I partially agree.

I agree that hanging a prop directly on the end of an automotive crank, even
if you put it on the flywheel end, is a recipe for a short tbo even at low
power and for a high failure rate at high power. (If you only use it to
push an airboat around the local swamp, you can keep a couple of bottles of
skin-so-soft in your tackle box.)

However, switching to a traditional aircraft powerplant may not solve the
problem. You really only have the full value of testing, experience, and
service history when you mate an unmodified engine to an airworthy propeller
with which that engine was certified--and preferrably in a combination used
by a large number of aircraft in regular service for a reasonably long time.
Remember the crankshaft problems in some of the Cessna 172's soon after the
change from the Continental O-300 to the Lycoming O-320. (I think it was an
early 160HP version, but have long forgotter the dash number--and the
problem was promptly solved.) There have been other "teething" problems as
well on various engines...

In the special case of a KR-2, which was the subject of at lease two of the
Corvair engines torn down and inspected, the plane sits too low to swing a
70+ inch diameter propeller; and IIRC was originally designed for VW engines
swnging 52 inch diameter propellers. I have heard that the KR-2S sits
enough higher to accept a larger prop, possibly 60 inch diameter. That
seems to negate the reduction drives, although a shaft drive, similar to the
one Steve Whittman developed for his V8 powered Tailwind, could be
interesting. BTW, the plans are still available--I think Aircraft Spruce
still sells them. Also, Revmaster (and possibly others) offers an aircraft
engine based loosly on the VW dimensions and a Jabiru could work--especially
with a 3 blade prop...





  #27  
Old January 20th 06, 06:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:06:33 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:

I don't think there's any dispute over the relative cost of engines.
This issue is longevity and whether one wants to fly an airplane with an
engine that might not make it to the next airport.


Cal, the statement I was responding to was from the guy who said that
auto engines end up essentially costing as much as an aircraft engine.
I was posting my actual costs to suggest that the costs are, or can
be, very much lower for the auto engine conversion than for a rebuilt
aircraft engine.

But I chose to do all the work, except for the machining of the engine
parts, myself. If you do not wish to put in that kind of time, or do
not have the knowledge to do so, then the options tend to be a lot
more expensive.

Buying a firewall forward package and simply bolting it in place and
connecting the wires and fuel lines will of course cost a bunch more
than doing everything yourself. Perhaps this is what that gentleman
was talking about.

Corky Scott
  #28  
Old January 20th 06, 08:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines

wrote)
I bought two 3.8L Ford V6's for $150 each, bought new pistons from Roush
racing, new rings, had the best block shot peened bored and honed, had the
best crank turned and nitrided, bought new bearings, new cam, new
distributer with two sensors installed for dual ignition, new pistons, new
timing gears and chain, planed the heads, had four new intake valves
installed and new guides installed as well, new valve springs, roller
rockers, new lifters, new carburetor, old style NWAero psru, ARP studs for
the crank bearings and cylinderheads, fabricated my own headers, and STILL
spent only about $6,000.



Why not fuel injected?

Also, is that two for $3K each?

What does that setup weigh?

Was matching a prop to your engine a problem? 3 bladed prop?

Curious...


Montblack

  #29  
Old January 20th 06, 08:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines - cracked crank link

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Cal Vanize" wrote

Good points all.

The point that stood out most for me was the part about the crank
from the engine that William built for his own demo 601. From the
article: "This engine represents a standard installation, albeit one
that was flown at its limits by Gus"... "showed stress fractures on
both sides of the area in question." at 200 hours. "no nitride"

\
Yes, that paragraph does seem to run contrary to the rest of the
_long_ website's information. So what gives, others in the know?


His recomendation of nitriding every corvair crank is NEW based on this
data and the several KR crank issues in the recent past. In other words,
nitriding was considered optional until the last week or so....

--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams
  #30  
Old January 20th 06, 09:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
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Default Corvair conversion engines


wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:06:33 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:

I don't think there's any dispute over the relative cost of engines.
This issue is longevity and whether one wants to fly an airplane with an
engine that might not make it to the next airport.


Cal, the statement I was responding to was from the guy who said that
auto engines end up essentially costing as much as an aircraft engine.
I was posting my actual costs to suggest that the costs are, or can
be, very much lower for the auto engine conversion than for a rebuilt
aircraft engine.

But I chose to do all the work, except for the machining of the engine
parts, myself. If you do not wish to put in that kind of time, or do
not have the knowledge to do so, then the options tend to be a lot
more expensive.

Buying a firewall forward package and simply bolting it in place and
connecting the wires and fuel lines will of course cost a bunch more
than doing everything yourself. Perhaps this is what that gentleman
was talking about.


Is there any good reason to use the Ford instead of the Buick V6?
There are a lot more Buick V6s out there. Also, there is a lot of
support from the aftermarket, hot rod and racing business for the Buick
engine and apparently none at all for the Ford V6.

The other engine to look at in my opinion is the Honda/Acura engine,
because they are readily available cheap from JDM pulls. The Japanese
have laws designed to encourage vehicles to be junked or exported
young, and those that do not get bought by Australians or Brits usually
get scrapped because Japan is a RHD market.

My neighbor's son bought the back half of a Toyota MR2 in absolutely
beautiful shape-and I do mean "the back half", as in "the car was
sliced in half by a colossal bandsaw"-for $1200 when his transaxle
failed. He got a engine, trans, rear brakes, halfshafts, everything.

 




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