boycott united forever

If they're smart, they'll leave. The company has already shown what its
word is worth. Would you work for someone that broke promises to pay you?

My dad worked there for 24 years. They laid him off before he could retire,
but he was promised his pension when he reached retirement age. Too late
for to "leave."

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?

-c

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?

No, your father was crapped on.

"Company loyalty" is a myth. In my years in the corporate world, I saw no
loyalty, either from the company, or from the workers.

Which is just one reason I choose to be in business for myself, despite the
risks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:41:06 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?

No, your father was crapped on.

"Company loyalty" is a myth. In my years in the corporate world, I saw no
loyalty, either from the company, or from the workers.

Which is just one reason I choose to be in business for myself, despite the
risks.

I've been working for a Fortune 500 company for a little over five
years. 2 years ago, the pension benefits in place when I was hired
were reduced by 80%. Employees with 15 years service were
"grandfathered" and kept the old plan, the rest of us took it in the
shorts. At the same time, the company 401k "matching" contribution was
cut in half.

Good friend of mine was employed by another local Fortune 500 company
for 20 1/2 years. He was "downsized", still does the exact same job,
works in the same office, but is now employed by the "contract"
company hired to replace his department. Of course his salary was
reduced drastically, and the benefits are poor.

I guess I'm not sure what point Mr. gatt is trying to make. **** like
this happens every day.

TC

gatt wrote:

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?


I'm really sorry to hear about your father's financial predicament,
but to answer your question, hard work is very smart, company loyalty
is an anachronism from a bygone era. It hasn't been a relevant concept
for decades.

Pledging your future to a faceless corporation is great for the
corporation, but as your father found out, it's a one-way street.
Tactics like getting rid of an employee on the eve of retirement (to
save a few bucks) are fairly commonplace. On top of that, banking
your retirement on the fact that a corporation will not only be in
business, but be profitable enough to support all of the former
employees is quite a gamble. Even large corporations fold on a fairly
regular basis.

I've only been in the workforce for about 26 yrs and have never
understood pensions. It requires a huge leap of faith in a
corporation. I equate it to keeping all of your retirement savings in
one stock. Not a financially sound move by any measure.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...

gatt wrote:

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?


I'm really sorry to hear about your father's financial predicament,
but to answer your question, hard work is very smart, company loyalty
is an anachronism from a bygone era. It hasn't been a relevant concept
for decades.

Pledging your future to a faceless corporation is great for the
corporation, but as your father found out, it's a one-way street.
Tactics like getting rid of an employee on the eve of retirement (to
save a few bucks) are fairly commonplace. On top of that, banking
your retirement on the fact that a corporation will not only be in
business, but be profitable enough to support all of the former
employees is quite a gamble. Even large corporations fold on a fairly
regular basis.

I've only been in the workforce for about 26 yrs and have never
understood pensions. It requires a huge leap of faith in a
corporation. I equate it to keeping all of your retirement savings in
one stock. Not a financially sound move by any measure.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


It isn't supposed to require either a leap of faith or the company remaining
in business. The Company is suppose to deposit money to fund the pension
plan which is a trust with an independent board. The funds are
professionally managed and, barring catastrophe, there should be enough to
pay the promised benefits.

Mike
MU-2

"gatt" wrote in message
...
If they're smart, they'll leave. The company has already shown what its
word is worth. Would you work for someone that broke promises to pay
you?

My dad worked there for 24 years. They laid him off before he could
retire,
but he was promised his pension when he reached retirement age. Too late
for to "leave."

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?

-c


Well the infomation that UAL was not funding the pension obligation was/is
readily availible in Uniteds SEC filings. Personally if I was depending on
someone/something to send me money for decades, I would verify that the
money was there. The reality is that this might be too much to expect from
individual employees, but there is no excuse for the unions not demanding
that the pension plans be funded.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...

"gatt" wrote in message
...
If they're smart, they'll leave. The company has already shown what its
word is worth. Would you work for someone that broke promises to pay
you?

My dad worked there for 24 years. They laid him off before he could
retire,
but he was promised his pension when he reached retirement age. Too late
for to "leave."

Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
loyalty
and hard work isn't smart?

-c


Well the infomation that UAL was not funding the pension obligation was/is
readily availible in Uniteds SEC filings. Personally if I was depending
on someone/something to send me money for decades, I would verify that the
money was there. The reality is that this might be too much to expect
from individual employees, but there is no excuse for the unions not
demanding that the pension plans be funded.

Mike
MU-2

The unions only care you pay them. Only a fool believes a union is their to
take care of them.

gatt ) wrote:
:
: Are you saying my father isn't "smart"? Are you saying that company
: loyalty and hard work isn't smart?
:

Company loyalty died years ago, with a few rare exceptions, like Malden
Mills. The following article contrasts Malden Mills' Aaron Feuerstein
with Enron's Ken Lay:

http://sitesearch.washingtonpost.com...2001Dec19.html
A CEO Who Lives by What's Right (washingtonpost.com)

"By Mary McGrory
Thursday, December 20, 2001; Page A03

In this anxious hour of pink-slip dread, it is restoring to think of
Aaron Feuerstein, a Massachusetts manufacturer who prizes his
employees and risks profits on their behalf.

The CEO of Malden Mills, located in Lawrence, the 23rd poorest
community in the country, stepped clear of the greedy stereotype of
his kind in 1995 when, just before Christmas, his factory burned down.
Rather than taking the insurance money and retiring or moving the
plant to some Third World country, he promptly announced that he would
rebuild. He gave bonuses to the help and paid them while they waited
for the factory reopening..."


--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

No, but, in the scenario that United were to fold, do you think the
present job market could absorb all of those workers? And the ones lucky
enough to find a job...who says the next company wouldn't default on
promises. Seems to be the rage these days. At least they have a salary
that feeds the family as long as United exists or they might be
fortunate enough to find another job.

Andrew Gideon wrote:



If they're smart, they'll leave. The company has already shown what its
word is worth. Would you work for someone that broke promises to pay you?

- Andrew

RomeoMike wrote:

No, but, in the scenario that United were to fold,Â*Â*doÂ*youÂ*thinkÂ*the
present job market could absorb all of those workers?

Well, it wouldn't quite be "the present job market". United folding would
leave an opportunity. I'd hope that at least some of the routes/flights
would be picked up by someone else (hopefully an upstart like JetBlue that
might actually make them work).

If not...well, then there was apparently no market for it (at least at
current pricing). That's unfortunate, but reality.

And the ones lucky
enough to find a job...who says the next company wouldn't default on
promises. Seems to be the rage these days.

Perhaps so. But I'd rather put my faith in someone that's not [yet] proven
untrustworthy as opposed to someone that already has.

- Andrew