Seldom-seen WWII pix

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

--
Moving Things In Still Pictures

On 8/8/2015 2:04 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?


Well, one obvious thought must be that as the British had in excess of
two years of hostile action before any other major participants appeared
in the conflict on the Allied side, they bore the brunt of the onslaught
of the Axis powers. So, yes, circumstances and a frenzied fight to
survive meant that we had to fight with tooth and nail with every
available asset - even if some of those assets were completely outdated.

Those two fraught years were used to good advantage, however, with
substantial losses being inflicted on the French and Italian navies, as
well as Germany's fleet. As early as 1940 it was Swordfish aircraft that
crippled the Italian fleet at Taranto, where two thirds of their
battleships were lost, as well as many other vessels, at the cost of two
Swordfish. These aircraft were also used against the French fleet in
1940, following the fall of France, plus, in 1941, the Germans lost the
Bismark to the actions of these aircraft, which disabled her steering
mechanism.

That said, it seems that the Swordfish was a versatile and easy to fly
aircraft, and its slow speed capability made it ideally suited to
carrier operations. It's interesting to note, given other recent
postings on this NG, that the Swordfish also used rocket assisted
take-off gear. They were also used as artillery spotter platforms for
warships.

Its success can probably be defined by four factors:

The first, as you surmised, being circumstances; second would be the
capabilities and sheer ruggedness of the aircraft; third would be the
rigorous training of the flight crews and, finally, the planning and
reconnaissance involved with the operations against major multiple targets.

Of course, I could be wrong...

;-)

I'm surprised to see that we actually exported Swordfish to five other
nations!

--
Moving Things In Still Pictures

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:52 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?

I would suggest the remarkable capabilities of the crews.

On 8/9/2015 2:31 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:52:40 +0100, Ri©ardo
wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:04 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?


Well, one obvious thought must be that as the British had in excess of
two years of hostile action before any other major participants appeared
in the conflict on the Allied side, they bore the brunt of the onslaught
of the Axis powers. So, yes, circumstances and a frenzied fight to
survive meant that we had to fight with tooth and nail with every
available asset - even if some of those assets were completely outdated.

Those two fraught years were used to good advantage, however, with
substantial losses being inflicted on the French and Italian navies, as
well as Germany's fleet. As early as 1940 it was Swordfish aircraft that
crippled the Italian fleet at Taranto, where two thirds of their
battleships were lost, as well as many other vessels, at the cost of two
Swordfish. These aircraft were also used against the French fleet in
1940, following the fall of France, plus, in 1941, the Germans lost the
Bismark to the actions of these aircraft, which disabled her steering
mechanism.

That said, it seems that the Swordfish was a versatile and easy to fly
aircraft, and its slow speed capability made it ideally suited to
carrier operations. It's interesting to note, given other recent
postings on this NG, that the Swordfish also used rocket assisted
take-off gear. They were also used as artillery spotter platforms for
warships.

Its success can probably be defined by four factors:

The first, as you surmised, being circumstances; second would be the
capabilities and sheer ruggedness of the aircraft; third would be the
rigorous training of the flight crews and, finally, the planning and
reconnaissance involved with the operations against major multiple targets.

Of course, I could be wrong...

;-)

I'm surprised to see that we actually exported Swordfish to five other
nations!

You provided an interesting analysis, thanks for taking the time to do
that!


Thank you Charles, it was my pleasure. It reminds me, however, that I
very rarely do any analytical thinking these days!

Ri©ardo

--
Moving Things In Still Pictures

On 8/9/2015 2:28 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:07:28 -0700, "Bob (not my real pseudonym)"
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:52 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?

I would suggest the remarkable capabilities of the crews.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it! ;-)


There's interesting comment today by way of a letter to one of our
national newspapers where the Swordfish gets a mention, as does the
Pacific War of which little is heard about the substantial British
contribution:

"Sir,

The "Forgotten Fleet" and its aircraft will be remembered today when a
vintage Royal Navy Swordfish biplane leads the fly-past over Horse
Guards Parade in London as part of events to commemorate the 70th
anniversary of VJ Day.

The British Pacific Fleet was the largest strike force ever assembled by
the Royal Navy*** and it fought alongside the US Navy in 1945. Aircraft
of the Fleet Air Arm undertook the largest ever raid in aviation naval
history on the oil fields at Palembang in Sumatra, and British naval
aircraft carried out raids upon Japan itself.

It's most appropriate that a Swordfish, which saw action in every year
of the war, will represent not just the forgotten fleet but the
oft-forgotten Fleet Air Arm too.

We should all take a moment today to remember those who fought the
Japanese Empire. Most who survive are nearly 90 years old or more. They
deserve our salute.

Lt-Cdr Lester May RN (retd)

*** To put that into context, Britain provided three-quarters of the
warships and landing craft for the D-Day landings in Europe!

Ri©ardo

--
Moving Things In Still Pictures

On 8/15/2015 4:50 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:24:18 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/9/2015 2:28 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:07:28 -0700, "Bob (not my real pseudonym)"
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:52 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:

On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:

On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?

I would suggest the remarkable capabilities of the crews.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it! ;-)


There's interesting comment today by way of a letter to one of our
national newspapers where the Swordfish gets a mention, as does the
Pacific War of which little is heard about the substantial British
contribution:

"Sir,

The "Forgotten Fleet" and its aircraft will be remembered today when a
vintage Royal Navy Swordfish biplane leads the fly-past over Horse
Guards Parade in London as part of events to commemorate the 70th
anniversary of VJ Day.

The British Pacific Fleet was the largest strike force ever assembled by
the Royal Navy*** and it fought alongside the US Navy in 1945. Aircraft
of the Fleet Air Arm undertook the largest ever raid in aviation naval
history on the oil fields at Palembang in Sumatra, and British naval
aircraft carried out raids upon Japan itself.

It's most appropriate that a Swordfish, which saw action in every year
of the war, will represent not just the forgotten fleet but the
oft-forgotten Fleet Air Arm too.

We should all take a moment today to remember those who fought the
Japanese Empire. Most who survive are nearly 90 years old or more. They
deserve our salute.

Lt-Cdr Lester May RN (retd)

*** To put that into context, Britain provided three-quarters of the
warships and landing craft for the D-Day landings in Europe!


Interesting article and comments. Is your point that the Brits contributed significantly to the war against
Japan? It would be logical for them to have done so considering the Japanese, on 8 December 1941(local time,
which was before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor), attacked the British in Malaya.

Did I miss your point?


In a word, no. But I was also highlighting how large the size of British
Pacific Fleet strike force must have been in 1945 when one considers the
British contribution to the D-Day landings.

--
Moving Things In Still Pictures

On 08/08/2015 12:15, Ri©ardo wrote:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft...................


This one was at Culdrose last month..

On 2015-08-15 16:53:07 +0000, Ri ardo said:

On 8/15/2015 4:50 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:24:18 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:
On 8/9/2015 2:28 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:07:28 -0700, "Bob (not my real pseudonym)"
wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:52 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:15:23 +0100, Ri©ardo wrote:
On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:

Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:

"Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish attacked
enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to avoid German
fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30, 1940,
Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at Augusta in
Sicily."

http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html

Ri©ardo

Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the Swordfish
holds the record for sinking more tonnage
than any other allied aircraft during WWII.

I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed to any
remarkable capabilities of the
aircraft, what is your perspective on this?

I would suggest the remarkable capabilities of the crews.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it! ;-)


There's interesting comment today by way of a letter to one of our
national newspapers where the Swordfish gets a mention, as does the
Pacific War of which little is heard about the substantial British
contribution:

"Sir,

The "Forgotten Fleet" and its aircraft will be remembered today when a
vintage Royal Navy Swordfish biplane leads the fly-past over Horse
Guards Parade in London as part of events to commemorate the 70th
anniversary of VJ Day.

The British Pacific Fleet was the largest strike force ever assembled by
the Royal Navy*** and it fought alongside the US Navy in 1945. Aircraft
of the Fleet Air Arm undertook the largest ever raid in aviation naval
history on the oil fields at Palembang in Sumatra, and British naval
aircraft carried out raids upon Japan itself.

It's most appropriate that a Swordfish, which saw action in every year
of the war, will represent not just the forgotten fleet but the
oft-forgotten Fleet Air Arm too.

We should all take a moment today to remember those who fought the
Japanese Empire. Most who survive are nearly 90 years old or more. They
deserve our salute.

Lt-Cdr Lester May RN (retd)

*** To put that into context, Britain provided three-quarters of the
warships and landing craft for the D-Day landings in Europe!


Interesting article and comments. Is your point that the Brits
contributed significantly to the war against Japan? It would be
logical for them to have done so considering the Japanese, on 8
December 1941(local time, which was before the Japanese attack on Pearl
Harbor), attacked the British in Malaya.

Did I miss your point?


In a word, no. But I was also highlighting how large the size of
British Pacific Fleet strike force must have been in 1945 when one
considers the British contribution to the D-Day landings.

It seems the Swordfish was not well represented in the Pacific or
South-West Pacific, particularly after the 1942 sinking of HMS Hermes
in Ceylon.

The British Pacific Fleet (BPF) had 6 fleet carriers and 9 escort
carriers many of these only moved to the East and Pacific in 1944 and
1945 after Mediterranean and North Atlantic convoy operations had been
dialed back.

HMS Colossus, Joined the BPF in June 1945, the Swordfish was withdrawn
from service in May 1945. She carried 24 Corsairs and 18 Barracudas.

HMS Formidable, refitted at Scapa Flow January 1945 with 36 Corsairs
and 18 Avengers. Joined BPF April 4, 1945 in the Phillipines. No
Swordfish onboard, they were being phased out.

HMS Glory, commisioned 2 April 1945, assigned directly to the BPF with
Barracudas, and Corsairs onboard. No Swordfish. She took the Japanese
surrender at Rabaul.

HMS Illustrious, after Taranto and her Indian Ocean cruise, returned to
Scapa Flow and refitted. In 1943 her Swordfish were replaced with
Barracudas. Two squadrons of Corsairs were added to supplement the
Martlets on board. She was assigned to the BPF in November 1944. During
the Battle for Okinawa she was so battle damaged she was withdrawn from
service and returned to the UK in June 1945.

HMS Implacable, was never armed with Swordfish, she was armed with
Fairy Fireflies, Barracudas, and Seafires when she was still part of
the Home Fleet. In March 1945 she was refitted with 12 Fireflies, 48
Seafires and 21 TBF Avengers and joined the BPF on 8 May 1945 (V-E Day).

HMS Indefatigable, joined the BPF in November 1944 with 6 PR Hellcats,
40 Seafires, 12 Fireflies and 21 Avengers onboard. She joined the USN
5th Fleet in March 1945 for the Okinawa invasion. She was the first BPF
carrier hit by kamakazis. She lost 25 of her Seafires on that operation.

HMS Indominable, she was part of the Eastern Fleet in 1944, and after
December 1944 attacks on Sumatra joined the BPF in January 1945. In
the East and with the BPF, she flew 39 Hellcats and 21 Avengers.

HMS Venerable, commissioned January 1945, and assigned directly to the
BPF with 21 Corsairs and 18 Barracudas onboard. She never had Swordfish
at anytime.

HMS Vengance, commissioned 1945, and joined the BPF in July 1945, but
never got out of Sydney before the war ended. Her 24 Corsairs and 18
Barracudas did not fly any combat missions. she was too new to have
ever flown Swordfish.

HMS Victorious. Her Swordfish played an important part in the sinking
of the Bismark. In December 1942 she was loaned to the USN and refitted
in Norfolk VA. where she was armed with Wildcat (FAA Martlet) and
Avengers. In 1944 she returned to the Home Fleet and Barracudas were
added. In June 1944 she joined the Eastern Fleet, and joined the BPF in
November 1944 with 36 Corsairs, 15 Avengers and 1 Walrus.

The 9 BPF Escort carriers were built in Tacoma Washington, and
Birmingham, Alabama and carried a mixture of 24 aircraft made up from
Martlets, Corsairs, Sea Hurricanes, and a small representation of
Avengers. Some of the escort carriers which had been on North Atlantic
convoy duty carried Swordfish before transfer to the BPF, but not in
the Pacific.

The bottom line here is the role the Swordfish played with the BPF was
minimal particularly since the last operational Swordfish Squadron was
disbanded in May 1945, with the last Swordfish coming off the
production line in August 1944. By then most RN carriers were
replacing, or had replaced Swordfish with Barrcudas and Avengers.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Ri©ardo" wrote in message
...

Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft

Maybe on one aircraft carrier, but according to Wikipedia 2,391 were built
(692 by Fairey and 1,699 by Blackburn) between 1936 and 1944:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Swordfish