More 3's?

With tried and true Ventus 3 and JS3, wonder how long before the ASG-33?

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 4:13:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
With tried and true Ventus 3 and JS3, wonder how long before the ASG-33?

And maybe soon the 2-33B

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 4:13:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
With tried and true Ventus 3 and JS3, wonder how long before the ASG-33?

Why would you want ASG-33 if ASG-29 can outfly V3 in strong conditions? It seems there was a need to put a limit on wing loading for Grand Prix to make the V3 competitive.

You will need an ASG-33 not to outfly a V3 - but the JS-3. The V3 and JS-1c (18m) match each other with the same wingloading as seen in Chile yesterday - and the JS-3 is a decade newer than the JS-1.....

Maybe I am just biased being a South African - but I am thinking the Germans have some catching up to do in the next few years. The JS-3 is going to be unbeatable in 15m and 18m Classes - and the JS-1c will still be very competitive in the Open Class in any competition. This advantage will be even greater where wingloading is a factor (strong days) and especially where it's weight that's limited, and not wingloading (like the Sailplane GrandPrix)..

torstai 18. tammikuuta 2018 5.14.33 UTC+2 kirjoitti:
You will need an ASG-33 not to outfly a V3 - but the JS-3. The V3 and JS-1c (18m) match each other with the same wingloading as seen in Chile yesterday - and the JS-3 is a decade newer than the JS-1.....

Maybe I am just biased being a South African - but I am thinking the Germans have some catching up to do in the next few years. The JS-3 is going to be unbeatable in 15m and 18m Classes - and the JS-1c will still be very competitive in the Open Class in any competition. This advantage will be even greater where wingloading is a factor (strong days) and especially where it's weight that's limited, and not wingloading (like the Sailplane GrandPrix).

Sebastian Kawa commented that V3 was much better in final glide, and it was quite obvious just by watcing races. No doubt engineers at Schleicher are at drawing board as we speak. Currently only interesting thing is how V3 and JS3 compares, JS1 and '29 belong to previous generation.

Hi Krasw,

apologies for my ignorance in this case, but could you briefly guide me to a link to that Kawa interview/comment?

My (superficial) impression from the last two long final glides was that both ships are performing more or less equally in capable hands even under slightly different conditions
- Tuesday was a 87 Km final glide (with practically identical flight paths from TP 4 with 55 Km to go) at assumed airspeeds above the "optimized" flight envelope (i.e. above 220-230 km/h IAS) - the winning V3 and JS1 crossed the finish line within 9 seconds
- Yesterday the 5 leaders were within 5 seconds after their 100+ Km spectacular ridge line dash at probably more representative speeds around 170-200 Km/h (in this case probably with some small differences in micromanaging their individual flight paths and their willingness to hug the rocks). Even the ASG 29 which is probably a bit handicapped due to the 52 Kg/m2 wingload limit instead of the usual MTOW limitation came in within 25 secs...

With these few data points I was under an initial low confidence impression of some kind of "equality" of V3 and JS 1 at least in the high speed ranges (I have no useful observations regarding handling/climbing differences or performance in the low to mid speed range...) - but obviously a comment from Kawa that the V3 outperforms his JS 1 in final glide would supersede that initial impression.

Thanks and best
Marc

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 11:55:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hi Krasw,

apologies for my ignorance in this case, but could you briefly guide me to a link to that Kawa interview/comment?

My (superficial) impression from the last two long final glides was that both ships are performing more or less equally in capable hands even under slightly different conditions
- Tuesday was a 87 Km final glide (with practically identical flight paths from TP 4 with 55 Km to go) at assumed airspeeds above the "optimized" flight envelope (i.e. above 220-230 km/h IAS) - the winning V3 and JS1 crossed the finish line within 9 seconds
- Yesterday the 5 leaders were within 5 seconds after their 100+ Km spectacular ridge line dash at probably more representative speeds around 170-200 Km/h (in this case probably with some small differences in micromanaging their individual flight paths and their willingness to hug the rocks). Even the ASG 29 which is probably a bit handicapped due to the 52 Kg/m2 wingload limit instead of the usual MTOW limitation came in within 25 secs...

With these few data points I was under an initial low confidence impression of some kind of "equality" of V3 and JS 1 at least in the high speed ranges (I have no useful observations regarding handling/climbing differences or performance in the low to mid speed range...) - but obviously a comment from Kawa that the V3 outperforms his JS 1 in final glide would supersede that initial impression.

Thanks and best
Marc

The fact that the JS-1 was flown by Kawa might have contributed to it being closer than it might have been! Note that the Ventus2cT also was in the mix, but flown by someone with thousands of hours locally (buy that man a beer!)... It looks to me like the V3 in those conditions is the one to have. It would have been nice to see a JS-3 or two as well.

On Thursday, 18 January 2018 18:55:02 UTC+2, wrote:
Hi Krasw,

apologies for my ignorance in this case, but could you briefly guide me to a link to that Kawa interview/comment?

Thanks and best
Marc

http://www.sebastiankawa.pl/12132/po...zydel-oby-nie/

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 12:25:50 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:

Sebastian Kawa commented that V3 was much better in final glide, and it was quite obvious just by watcing races. No doubt engineers at Schleicher are at drawing board as we speak. Currently only interesting thing is how V3 and JS3 compares, JS1 and '29 belong to previous generation.

With all due respect, the SGP racers are limited to same wing loading not the design limit of the 18 meter. So gliders with a bit more wing area are loaded heavier. One final glide I watched, the winning glider was 60 kg heavier than 2nd place, or so said the 2nd place pilot. I would want to see a final glide at all up weight before deciding which is better in glide.

If you watch some of the earlier video's of this race you will hear the commentators' talk about how rough Kawa"s JS-1C is and how much work he did not it prior to the race. Might be a factor.

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 12:25:50 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
torstai 18. tammikuuta 2018 5.14.33 UTC+2 kirjoitti:
You will need an ASG-33 not to outfly a V3 - but the JS-3. The V3 and JS-1c (18m) match each other with the same wingloading as seen in Chile yesterday - and the JS-3 is a decade newer than the JS-1.....

Maybe I am just biased being a South African - but I am thinking the Germans have some catching up to do in the next few years. The JS-3 is going to be unbeatable in 15m and 18m Classes - and the JS-1c will still be very competitive in the Open Class in any competition. This advantage will be even greater where wingloading is a factor (strong days) and especially where it's weight that's limited, and not wingloading (like the Sailplane GrandPrix).

Sebastian Kawa commented that V3 was much better in final glide, and it was quite obvious just by watcing races. No doubt engineers at Schleicher are at drawing board as we speak. Currently only interesting thing is how V3 and JS3 compares, JS1 and '29 belong to previous generation.