Glide computer review

I'm looking for a ship to buy and find that I don't have much
perspective in evaluating various glide computers. Is there an
existing and comprehensive glide computer review?

My doubtlessly flawed view of the glide computer universe divides
things into two main groups - panel mounted and PDA-based. Another
way to divide things might be between moving map and non-moving map
systems. I'm sure the type of flying is an important in this choice -
contests vs. general XC flying for example.

At the least, I'm hoping for some guidance to distinguish the
Cambridge 302 and the Ilec SN-10B. What else deserves to be
evaluated? Also, are things moving in a particular direction -- like
large super bright (vs. PDA's) built in displays? Having components
that would be useful for doing that later would be plus.

I value: ease of use, readability in sunlight, the ability to monitor
multiple landing options simultaneously, no 250 turn point limitation
(L-Nav), and reliable wind data. I like to fly into areas I've never
been to before and haven't done contests - but might.

Thanks to all who will take a crack at this,

Eric
ER

On Dec 4, 10:53*am, Itsaplane wrote:
I'm looking for a ship to buy and find that I don't have much
perspective in evaluating various glide computers. *Is there an
existing and comprehensive glide computer review?

My doubtlessly flawed view of the glide computer universe divides
things into two main groups - panel mounted and PDA-based. *Another
way to divide things might be between moving map and non-moving map
systems. *I'm sure the type of flying is an important in this choice -
contests vs. general XC flying for example.

At the least, I'm hoping for some guidance to distinguish the
Cambridge 302 and the Ilec SN-10B. *What else deserves to be
evaluated? *Also, are things moving in a particular direction -- like
large super bright (vs. PDA's) built in displays? *Having components
that would be useful for doing that later would be plus.

I value: ease of use, readability in sunlight, the ability to monitor
multiple landing options simultaneously, no 250 turn point limitation
(L-Nav), and reliable wind data. *I like to fly into areas I've never
been to before and haven't done contests - but might.

Thanks to all who will take a crack at this,

Eric
ER

A good start would be to review the wealth of info on Paul Remde's
'value added' section under product comparisons/selections section:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/#Value_Added , particularly the flight
computers section:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/flightcomputers.htm

-Paul Hanson

I second that. Paul compares the options better than I ever could. I
just used his SeeYou tutorial and must say that it was excellent. I
am surprised that SeeYou has not bought that tutorial from him and
branded it their own.

As far as PDA vs expensive panel option: I am at your stage of the
game and have chosen to go the PDA route with the EW microrecorder. I
am sure there are drawbacks but I am too naive to realize them just
yet. For $1,000 I have what I need for badge flights and
competitions. Many of the high dollar ships use an EW Microrecorder
as a backup so I figure I have not wasted anything by buying one.

Lane

I flew with PDA only for a few years before adding a SN10B, to me the SN10
is a big improvement. The display is *always* readable at a glance, it
*always* works when I turn it on, and there are *no* settings to fiddle with
before take off. I now use the PDA as a moving map and the SN10 for
everything else. I hardly have to touch anything on the PDA or switch pages
at the SN10 during flight (XC, no competition flying), the same would be
true with a Zander, LX, or any similar system.

After landing I use the PDA to read my flights from the logger to a memory
card, so no need to bring a laptop to the airfield. I guess (but haven´t
tried yet) I could also use the PDA to transfer airspace and waypoint data
to the rather small (compared to a PDA) SN10 memory.

Michael

Alright, I'll be the heretic in the group:

I find that a well-set-up PDA is much better than most of the flight
computers out there!

Many of the panel-mounted computers use text and/or point-and-line
graphics; which, while visible in sunlight, don't give you nearly as
good of an idea where you are as a moving map does. Maybe its because
I'm younger than the average US glider pilot (sorry, not my fault) and
I've grown up around computers and graphics, but I find moving-map
symbology (with a couple of choice text items) MUCH easier to
interpret at a glance, compared to the "screen full of text" approach
of many glide computers. And some brain studies have proven that
simple colors and shapes can be interpreted faster than text (letters
are shapes as well; but shapes that need to get shuffled off to the
linguistic part of the brain, IIRC).

I think one of the problems is that most people pull a PDA out of the
box, load up a flight program like XCSoar (my favorite) or SeeYou, and
immediately compare it to the panel-mounted flight computers in top
gliders. The issue is that the major PDA systems are far more
customizable. IF people would take the time to tweak the PDA-based
programs to display the information they want and in the style that
they like, I think the overall opinion of these solutions would go up
quite a bit!

I also find the menu system and feature navigation in most panel-
mounted flight computers is a NIGHTMARE. As a programmer with a lot
of experience in webpages and other user-interfaces, these systems
drive me up a WALL! The designers obviously didn't put a whole lot of
thought into the fact that people will be fiddling with these things
while _flying_. Since the flying is the more important part, some
focus should have been put on easy navigation to the most important
items in an unambiguous manner. IMHO, its a bad design to have 1
button perform 4 or 5 functions depending on how you hold it down or
in what sequence you press it!

They're getting better with the most recent generations of panel-
mounted computers, but a lot of the older/used units on the market
worry me... They require the most "heads-down" time to use, but are
the cheapest and therefore the most likely items to be used by the
least experienced pilots.... Seems like a BAD combo, to me!

OK, enough ranting/opinionating... The bottom line is that neither
PDAs nor Panel-mounted solutions are a silver-bullet. Anyone with
interest in them should SPEND SOME TIME fiddling with a variety of
solutions to find out what feels best to them - even if its just on
the ground with some buddies' gliders. Be sure to ask about how each
system can be customized - in case your idea of the perfect setup
differs from your buddies! You want to make apples-to-apples
comparisons, afterall.

--Noel

Oh, and I got sidetracked before making the sequels; but here's a
video on XCSoar that I put together a long time ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBB_ggqYFA

Maybe someday soon I'll put together a couple of videos on task-flying
and configuring the display...

--Noel

Different strokes, however some logical problems in the
above post, explained below...

On Dec 7, 1:02*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
Alright, I'll be the heretic in the group:

I find that a well-set-up PDA is much better than most of the flight
computers out there!

And you have extensive experience with which ?

Many of the panel-mounted computers use text and/or point-and-line
graphics; which, while visible in sunlight, don't give you nearly as
good of an idea where you are as a moving map does. *Maybe its because
I'm younger than the average US glider pilot (sorry, not my fault) and
I've grown up around computers and graphics, but I find moving-map
symbology (with a couple of choice text items) MUCH easier to
interpret at a glance, compared to the "screen full of text" approach
of many glide computers. *And some brain studies have proven that
simple colors and shapes can be interpreted faster than text (letters
are shapes as well; but shapes that need to get shuffled off to the
linguistic part of the brain, IIRC).

I've focused design on being able to QUICKLY SCAN the panel
and get the info you need. Otherwise you spend too much time
heads down. Things that prevent scanning a
- poor screen clarity (contrast, resolution, size, fonts) requiring
squint time
- too much stuff (why you can't scan a sectional) !
- poor organization

ALL our flight screens are tested for scanability - can you look
at the image for = one second, look away, and have got what you
need ?
If it takes more time than that, what exactly is going to happen
in a thermal or on the ridge at mach speed ?
That's why our moving map is SIMPLE.
You can scan it !

I think one of the problems is that most people pull a PDA out of the
box, load up a flight program like XCSoar (my favorite) or SeeYou, and
immediately compare it to the panel-mounted flight computers in top
gliders. *The issue is that the major PDA systems are far more
customizable. *IF people would take the time to tweak the PDA-based
programs to display the information they want and in the style that
they like, I think the overall opinion of these solutions would go up
quite a bit!

Actually, most people WANT a solution that does not require
extensive fiddling to get to square one. Of course, we provide
a custom screen for those that want it.

I also find the menu system and feature navigation in most panel-
mounted flight computers is a NIGHTMARE. *As a programmer with a lot
of experience in webpages and other user-interfaces, these systems
drive me up a WALL! *The designers obviously didn't put a whole lot of
thought into the fact that people will be fiddling with these things
while _flying_. *Since the flying is the more important part, some
focus should have been put on easy navigation to the most important
items in an unambiguous manner. *IMHO, its a bad design to have 1
button perform 4 or 5 functions depending on how you hold it down or
in what sequence you press it!

Right. We design for operation with the left hand, with gloves on.
We use a flat, non-modal interface. No silly menus.

They're getting better with the most recent generations of panel-
mounted computers, but a lot of the older/used units on the market
worry me... *They require the most "heads-down" time to use, but are
the cheapest and therefore the most likely items to be used by the
least experienced pilots.... *Seems like a BAD combo, to me!

OK, enough ranting/opinionating... *The bottom line is that neither
PDAs nor Panel-mounted solutions are a silver-bullet. *Anyone with
interest in them should SPEND SOME TIME fiddling with a variety of
solutions to find out what feels best to them - even if its just on
the ground with some buddies' gliders. *Be sure to ask about how each
system can be customized - in case your idea of the perfect setup
differs from your buddies! *You want to make apples-to-apples
comparisons, afterall.

--Noel

On Dec 4, 10:53*am, Itsaplane wrote:
I'm looking for a ship to buy and find that I don't have much
perspective in evaluating various glide computers. *Is there an
existing and comprehensive glide computer review?

My doubtlessly flawed view of the glide computer universe divides
things into two main groups - panel mounted and PDA-based. *Another
way to divide things might be between moving map and non-moving map
systems. *I'm sure the type of flying is an important in this choice -
contests vs. general XC flying for example.

At the least, I'm hoping for some guidance to distinguish the
Cambridge 302 and the Ilec SN-10B. *What else deserves to be
evaluated? *Also, are things moving in a particular direction -- like
large super bright (vs. PDA's) built in displays? *Having components
that would be useful for doing that later would be plus.

I value: ease of use, readability in sunlight, the ability to monitor
multiple landing options simultaneously, no 250 turn point limitation
(L-Nav), and reliable wind data. *I like to fly into areas I've never
been to before and haven't done contests - but might.

Thanks to all who will take a crack at this,

Eric
ER

Eric,

Consider a CAI 302 with a Caggy Aero Ultimate

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm

Call if you want to talk about different options, I have used and
tested in flight most of the options available.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Hi,

I would be glad to talk to you and give you my insights into the many
options. You can also view my product comparisons on my web site under the
"Comparisons" menu.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/flightcomputers.htm

I have played and soared with most soaring instruments. They all have their
pros and cons. The key is to find the one that matches your needs and
desires.

You may want to ask some local glider pilots what they like and don't like
about their flight computers.

I can be reached at 952-445-9033 or via Skype.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Itsaplane" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a ship to buy and find that I don't have much
perspective in evaluating various glide computers. Is there an
existing and comprehensive glide computer review?

My doubtlessly flawed view of the glide computer universe divides
things into two main groups - panel mounted and PDA-based. Another
way to divide things might be between moving map and non-moving map
systems. I'm sure the type of flying is an important in this choice -
contests vs. general XC flying for example.

At the least, I'm hoping for some guidance to distinguish the
Cambridge 302 and the Ilec SN-10B. What else deserves to be
evaluated? Also, are things moving in a particular direction -- like
large super bright (vs. PDA's) built in displays? Having components
that would be useful for doing that later would be plus.

I value: ease of use, readability in sunlight, the ability to monitor
multiple landing options simultaneously, no 250 turn point limitation
(L-Nav), and reliable wind data. I like to fly into areas I've never
been to before and haven't done contests - but might.

Thanks to all who will take a crack at this,

Eric
ER

On Dec 4, 2:47*pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I would be glad to talk to you and give you my insights into the many
options. *You can also view my product comparisons on my web site under the
"Comparisons" menu.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/http:...tcomputers.htm

I have played and soared with most soaring instruments. *They all have their
pros and cons. *The key is to find the one that matches your needs and
desires.

You may want to ask some local glider pilots what they like and don't like
about their flight computers.

I can be reached at 952-445-9033 or via Skype.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Itsaplane" wrote in message

...



I'm looking for a ship to buy and find that I don't have much
perspective in evaluating various glide computers. *Is there an
existing and comprehensive glide computer review?

My doubtlessly flawed view of the glide computer universe divides
things into two main groups - panel mounted and PDA-based. *Another
way to divide things might be between moving map and non-moving map
systems. *I'm sure the type of flying is an important in this choice -
contests vs. general XC flying for example.

At the least, I'm hoping for some guidance to distinguish the
Cambridge 302 and the Ilec SN-10B. *What else deserves to be
evaluated? *Also, are things moving in a particular direction -- like
large super bright (vs. PDA's) built in displays? *Having components
that would be useful for doing that later would be plus.

I value: ease of use, readability in sunlight, the ability to monitor
multiple landing options simultaneously, no 250 turn point limitation
(L-Nav), and reliable wind data. *I like to fly into areas I've never
been to before and haven't done contests - but might.

Thanks to all who will take a crack at this,

Eric
ER

Paul wrote "The key is to find the one that matches your needs and
desires."

This should read "find the one that matches your needs,
desires and pocket book."