Real Life (in IMC) IFR training

-----Original Message-----
From: Mortimer Schnerd, RN [mailto:mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com]
Posted At: Friday, November 10, 2006 11:49 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Real Life (in IMC) IFR training
Subject: Real Life (in IMC) IFR training

....

I believe the statute of limitations has expired. You missed your
chance
to
have me flogged.


Come on now Mort, we all know there's no statute of limitations on
flogging... :}

RN,

I believe the statute of limitations has expired. You missed your chance to
have me flogged.


I figured. Just wanted to tell the lurker who may not be as far along in their
experience as you are.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Thomas Borchert wrote:
I knew I was supposed to stay away from them but it
seemed harmless enough; like I said I'd be in and out again in just a
few
seconds. No problem.

Your no problem is my worst fear when flying IFR.

I believe the statute of limitations has expired. You missed your chance
to have me flogged.

Even though you got away with it without penalty, it's worth pointing out
that you were recklessly endangering others' lives. What you did was
analogous to intentionally speeding through a red light at a blind
intersection, betting that there won't happen to be any traffic on the
cross-street.

--Gary

Especially when he's into that sort of thing.. haha

Jim Carter wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Mortimer Schnerd, RN [mailto:mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com]
Posted At: Friday, November 10, 2006 11:49 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Real Life (in IMC) IFR training
Subject: Real Life (in IMC) IFR training


...

I believe the statute of limitations has expired. You missed your

chance

to
have me flogged.



Come on now Mort, we all know there's no statute of limitations on
flogging... :}

Gary Drescher wrote:
Even though you got away with it without penalty, it's worth pointing out
that you were recklessly endangering others' lives. What you did was
analogous to intentionally speeding through a red light at a blind
intersection, betting that there won't happen to be any traffic on the
cross-street.



All true. That's why I started my instrument training as soon as I got back. I
was *very* inexperienced.

Now, if you'd managed to run into me, I'd wonder why you were flying at a VFR
altitude instead of your own IFR altitude? I was at an appropriate VFR altitude
for my direction of flight squawking 1200 with an altitude encoder. I just
mention that in passing. Having flown the same route IFR many times since, I
know I was in radar range the whole way, so if you were on an IFR flight plan,
you should have gotten a traffic warning about me: "Traffic 12 o'clock,
southwest bound, squawking VFR at 4,500, unverified" or words to that effect.

I have said this befo God grants a special dispensation to the young and
stupid. Sometimes he rescinds it. In my case, I got away with it. Wouldn't do
it now.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Now, if you'd managed to run into me, I'd wonder why you were flying
at a VFR altitude instead of your own IFR altitude?

Could be possible that I'd be descending or climbing through a VFR
altitude.

I was at an
appropriate VFR altitude for my direction of flight squawking 1200
with an altitude encoder. I just mention that in passing. Having
flown the same route IFR many times since, I know I was in radar range
the whole way, so if you were on an IFR flight plan, you should have
gotten a traffic warning about me: "Traffic 12 o'clock, southwest
bound, squawking VFR at 4,500, unverified" or words to that effect.

You would hope so, but I had a near miss with another plane and we were
both IFR and I was descending and the other airplane was climbing, so
things happen probably just as risky between VFR and IFR cruising
altitudes. Neither of us got advisories. The other plane just happened
to be my IFR instructor climbing out and he said he was close enough to
read the word Beechcraft on my empennage. The only thing I saw was a
high wing plane go right on by me as I descended out of the cloud.

I have said this befo God grants a special dispensation to the
young and stupid. Sometimes he rescinds it. In my case, I got away
with it. Wouldn't do it now.

and this is the bottom line, you learned from it, so we move on.

After all, we do learn from mistakes, and lord, I have made a many
myself.

Thanks for sharing!

Allen

On 11/11/06 17:53, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Gary Drescher wrote:
Even though you got away with it without penalty, it's worth pointing out
that you were recklessly endangering others' lives. What you did was
analogous to intentionally speeding through a red light at a blind
intersection, betting that there won't happen to be any traffic on the
cross-street.



All true. That's why I started my instrument training as soon as I got back. I
was *very* inexperienced.

Now, if you'd managed to run into me, I'd wonder why you were flying at a VFR
altitude instead of your own IFR altitude?

When flying under instrument flight rules, you fly at the altitude
assigned by ATC which may or may not be one of the ones mentioned
in the FARs (like 91.179, for example).

I was at an appropriate VFR altitude
for my direction of flight squawking 1200 with an altitude encoder.

Of course, we know this doesn't mean you're not responsible for maintaining
clearance from clouds.

I just
mention that in passing. Having flown the same route IFR many times since, I
know I was in radar range the whole way, so if you were on an IFR flight plan,
you should have gotten a traffic warning about me: "Traffic 12 o'clock,
southwest bound, squawking VFR at 4,500, unverified" or words to that effect.

That assumes an awful lot. Like that the radar operator was paying attention,
that your transponder was working properly, etc. - none of which relieves
you of your responsibility to maintain your clearance from clouds.


I have said this befo God grants a special dispensation to the young and
stupid. Sometimes he rescinds it. In my case, I got away with it. Wouldn't do
it now.

Personally, I think you should have led with that last paragraph and scrapped
the rest of the 'explainations' ;-)

Not trying to 'beat you up', but it was your explaining why it wasn't
so bad that really got me ;-)

Like you've said, you'd never do that sort of thing now.

I have a friend that took me for a flight from the Bay Area in California
back to Sacramento (this was before I became a pilot) and upon taking off,
he flew right through a pretty heavy cloud layer. We were in the clouds for
at least a minute before we broke back out. To this day he still says this
was ok - and he has several arguments why it was not unsafe.

I simply won't fly with him any longer.


Best Regards,


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
I have said this befo God grants a special dispensation to the young
and stupid. Sometimes he rescinds it. In my case, I got away with it.
Wouldn't do it now.

Fair enough. It's good that you posted your experience as a cautionary
tale for others.

--Gary

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
I have a friend that took me for a flight from the Bay Area in California
back to Sacramento (this was before I became a pilot) and upon taking off,
he flew right through a pretty heavy cloud layer. We were in the clouds
for
at least a minute before we broke back out. To this day he still says this
was ok - and he has several arguments why it was not unsafe.

I assume the flight wasn't IFR.

I simply won't fly with him any longer.

It's too bad that not flying with him isn't sufficient to protect ourselves
from his flying!

--Gary

RN,

Now, if you'd managed to run into me, I'd wonder why you were flying at a VFR
altitude instead of your own IFR altitude?


Two words: descent, climb. And yes, thanks for sharing. We can all learn from
it.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)