Canadian Forces cast about for used Hercules airframes

"Ron" wrote in message
...
Not entirely true. Forest Service will not accept them for any
retardant
tanker work. I believe some of the C-130As were used this summer, but
outside
the country.

I know people who retrofit C-130s and they are saying many will soon be
beer
cans. The water bomber crash was bad for the C-130, but good for
Bombardier.

And again, not entirely true

No Rob, it is entirely true that what happened is good for Bombardier. If
you were to choose to acquire even the most basic understanding of the
opertion of these quasi-public aircraft you would know that the "oldest
airframe" is the first launched. Bombardier's fire bombers are new and
subject to waiting a long long time before they are used today. A chnge in
the law is likely, due to the fact that old aircraft are more prone to
falling out of the sky.

They are two different aircraft that would be best in two different
environments. In big wide open areas with lots of lakes, like much of
southern
Canada, and Minnesota, those scoopers are great.

Poor Ron, makes a false premise and then expands into more ignorance.

But in the weste n states, the scoopers would not be near as useful.
Alpine
lakes surrounded by mountain peaks at around 10,000 MSL are not very good
places to be trying to scoop water, especially during a summer day.

Get back with us afeter you purchase a vowel, Ron.

cans. The water bomber crash was bad for the C-130, but good for
Bombardier.

And again, not entirely true

No Rob, it is entirely true that what happened is good for Bombardier. If
you were to choose to acquire even the most basic understanding of the
opertion of these quasi-public aircraft you would know that the "oldest
airframe" is the first launched. Bombardier's fire bombers are new and
subject to waiting a long long time before they are used today. A chnge in
the law is likely, due to the fact that old aircraft are more prone to
falling out of the sky.

I didnt say it was not true at all...I am sure they might get some additional
orders, but those new Bombardier CL-415s are really expensive. They are good
at what they do though, not denying that at all.

They are two different aircraft that would be best in two different
environments. In big wide open areas with lots of lakes, like much of
southern
Canada, and Minnesota, those scoopers are great.

Poor Ron, makes a false premise and then expands into more ignorance.


mmmmm okay

But in the weste n states, the scoopers would not be near as useful.
Alpine
lakes surrounded by mountain peaks at around 10,000 MSL are not very good
places to be trying to scoop water, especially during a summer day.

Get back with us afeter you purchase a vowel, Ron.


Now that wasnt really neccessary John. I have never said a bad or personal
thing about you on here, even if I disagreed with you.

My point was that the retardant tankers are not neccesarily just interchangable
with the scooper type tankers. I have fought fire, both on the ground as a
wildland firefighter, and also as an air attack/recon pilot, on fires that a
scooper type would be as worthless as tits on a frog.

But areas with a lot of accessable water, that is not highly mountainous, can
be an ideal place for a Bombardier Cl215 or 415 tanker. Brainerd Minnesota I
believe has on based there during the summer. In some areas, they get lots of
use, and are far better than a heavy type, like a C-130A...



Ron
Tucson AZ
C-421 air ambulance

"Ron" wrote in message
...
cans. The water bomber crash was bad for the C-130, but good for
Bombardier.

And again, not entirely true

No Rob, it is entirely true that what happened is good for Bombardier.
If
you were to choose to acquire even the most basic understanding of the
opertion of these quasi-public aircraft you would know that the "oldest
airframe" is the first launched. Bombardier's fire bombers are new and
subject to waiting a long long time before they are used today. A chnge
in
the law is likely, due to the fact that old aircraft are more prone to
falling out of the sky.

I didnt say it was not true at all...

You wrote something silly, Ron.

I am sure they might get some additional
orders, but those new Bombardier CL-415s are really expensive. They are
good
at what they do though, not denying that at all.

It is operational rules that styfle Bombardier's sales, not cost. Do you
have any idea what it costs to launch those radial engine relics out of Fox
Field? The USAF is crying now at the cost of keeping 707s flying.

They are two different aircraft that would be best in two different
environments. In big wide open areas with lots of lakes, like much of
southern
Canada, and Minnesota, those scoopers are great.

Poor Ron, makes a false premise and then expands into more ignorance.

mmmmm okay

There are plenty of man made lakes to scoop from in the Southwest.

But in the weste n states, the scoopers would not be near as useful.
Alpine
lakes surrounded by mountain peaks at around 10,000 MSL are not very
good
places to be trying to scoop water, especially during a summer day.

Get back with us afeter you purchase a vowel, Ron.

Now that wasnt really neccessary John. I have never said a bad or
personal
thing about you on here, even if I disagreed with you.

"And again, not entirely true "

I take that as a personal insult.

I have respect for you Ron, as most of your posts are well thought out, but
since Dudley has taken his insults into the real world people in the real
world have been harmed. Even some Canadians are finding themselves DK'd,
over the trolls tantrum.

My point was that the retardant tankers are not neccesarily just
interchangable
with the scooper type tankers. I have fought fire, both on the ground as
a
wildland firefighter, and also as an air attack/recon pilot, on fires that
a
scooper type would be as worthless as tits on a frog.

Age of airframe is the fire bomber issue, from an operational standpoint.

From the Canadian standpoint, interchangability of parts is the issue and
that is true through the H model. in fact, Oz may have some Hs they mioght
be ready to sell.

But areas with a lot of accessable water, that is not highly mountainous,
can
be an ideal place for a Bombardier Cl215 or 415 tanker. Brainerd
Minnesota I
believe has on based there during the summer. In some areas, they get
lots of
use, and are far better than a heavy type, like a C-130A...

That C-130 folding up on live video was not good for the immage of the type.

All aviation is politics.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"Ron" wrote in message
...
Not entirely true. Forest Service will not accept them for any
retardant
tanker work. I believe some of the C-130As were used this summer, but
outside
the country.

I know people who retrofit C-130s and they are saying many will soon be
beer
cans. The water bomber crash was bad for the C-130, but good for
Bombardier.

And again, not entirely true

No Rob, it is entirely true that what happened is good for Bombardier. If
you were to choose to acquire even the most basic understanding of the
opertion of these quasi-public aircraft you would know that the "oldest
airframe" is the first launched. Bombardier's fire bombers are new and
subject to waiting a long long time before they are used today. A chnge in
the law is likely, due to the fact that old aircraft are more prone to
falling out of the sky.

They are two different aircraft that would be best in two different
environments. In big wide open areas with lots of lakes, like much of
southern
Canada, and Minnesota, those scoopers are great.

Poor Ron, makes a false premise and then expands into more ignorance.

Well, he sounds a lot less ignorant than the Tarvernaut. How many
CL-415's have been sold in the western US?


But in the weste n states, the scoopers would not be near as useful.
Alpine
lakes surrounded by mountain peaks at around 10,000 MSL are not very good
places to be trying to scoop water, especially during a summer day.

Get back with us afeter you purchase a vowel, Ron.

Guess the concept of a goodly chunk of the area in our western states
not being all that compatable with fixed wing scoop operations is
beyond the Tarvernaut as well; but then again, if he can invent a
"recoiless" M102 for the AC-130, I guess it is pretty easy for him to
declare that scoop operations in those mountain lakes is a piece of
cake...

Brooks

"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message
...
National Pest article at http://tinyurl.com/onwo.

How realistic is this plan, anyway? Are there any C-130 airframes out
there to be had? Or, like John Cleese in the Cheese Shop sketch, is this
an act of the purest optimism on the part of the procurement folks to
pose the question in the first place.

The C-130 fire bomber crash in California put many of the airframes on a
course for being beer cans.

Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...
--

-Gord.

Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...
--

-Gord.

If you find it please send it to me.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:


"Andrew Chaplin" wrote in message
...
National Pest article at http://tinyurl.com/onwo.

How realistic is this plan, anyway? Are there any C-130 airframes out
there to be had? Or, like John Cleese in the Cheese Shop sketch, is
this
an act of the purest optimism on the part of the procurement folks to
pose the question in the first place.

The C-130 fire bomber crash in California put many of the airframes on a
course for being beer cans.

Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...

It didn't look real.

Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...

It didn't look real.

But it was real.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...

It didn't look real.

But it was real.

Yes, the wings just folded up.

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"B2431" wrote in message
...
Yes, that's a real scary clip isn't it?...both wings came off
like they were made of cheese...I have it here somewhere...

It didn't look real.

But it was real.

Yes, the wings just folded up.

For those of us who have spent any amount of time as Herky Bird cargo,
that clip brought on a real "Holy F*ck!" moment. I imagine it was not
any better for those who drive them.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)