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We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 16th 17, 02:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Posts: 807
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:59:28 PM UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:50:02 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

It would be interesting to know the true cost of winch launch.

Last year we charged GBP 11 for a winch launch. IIRC which launches have
a small tug subsidy included in that charge.

We do a lot of winching: our winches are used every flying day provided
bad weather doesn't cause cancellation. That is 5 days/week in winter and
7 days/week in summer.


That's NZ$20. I hope that's where the charge will be in five years.

In fact you can already get winch launches for $30 each (17 GBP) if you pay for 40 of them in advance (which must be used within two years).
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  #42  
Old March 16th 17, 02:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,234
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 06:39:04 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:59:28 PM UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2017 03:50:02 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

It would be interesting to know the true cost of winch launch.

Last year we charged GBP 11 for a winch launch. IIRC which launches
have a small tug subsidy included in that charge.

We do a lot of winching: our winches are used every flying day provided
bad weather doesn't cause cancellation. That is 5 days/week in winter
and 7 days/week in summer.


That's NZ$20. I hope that's where the charge will be in five years.

In fact you can already get winch launches for $30 each (17 GBP) if you
pay for 40 of them in advance (which must be used within two years).


The only way I can think of to get a better cost estimate that asking
round is to total costs over a year and divide that by the number of
launches. Here's quick guess at what needs to be included:

- one set of new Spectra cables (or two if using steel)
- the cost of strops lost
- fuel used
- items consumed in routine maintenance
- any external maintenance costs
- depreciation, interest on loans, etc

I've probably missed some items, such as a share of the operating cost of
the tow vehicle used to move the winch round the airfield, but hopefully
that list is a reasonable starting point for anybody wanting to calculate
actual winch costs.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #43  
Old March 16th 17, 03:24 PM
gotovkotzepkoi gotovkotzepkoi is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Oct 2010
Posts: 200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Hoult View Post
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c


High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It could well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.
Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane.
  #44  
Old March 16th 17, 08:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Vernon Brown
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Posts: 18
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:

Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.


Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi


Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?

  #45  
Old March 16th 17, 09:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 2,813
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

About $55 for a 2,000' tow.

Last time I did winch launch in the US it was $5 per snap. This was
with a club.

On 3/16/2017 1:55 PM, Vernon Brown wrote:
At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.

Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi

Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?


--
Dan, 5J
  #46  
Old March 16th 17, 09:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 1,767
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-6, Vernon Brown wrote:
At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:

Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.


Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi


Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?


Winch $17/non-members $22
Aerotows $11 hookup + $1.30/100, non-members +$12

  #47  
Old March 17th 17, 02:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 181
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

ATOS VR used prices are about 17,000 Euro. For 20:1 L/D. I flew hang gliders for 30 years, and got into sailplanes in 1999, just about the time the ATOS was introduced. The increase in weight, T/O and landing speed, coupled with my aging knees and body precluded an attempt to embrace the new technology. Instead, I bought a 25 year old glider (Centrair Pegase 101A) for about the same price and flew the heck out of it. With 40:1 L/D and a 135 kt. Vne, I got over 200 hours the first year and way more kilometers of XC flight than I had ever experienced with a hang glider. Plus, I always (well nearly always) landed back at the home airfield. On a wheel.

But I still miss hang gliding. It was the most fun I ever had. Soaring is close to the same fun, but not quite.
  #48  
Old March 18th 17, 03:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Soartech
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Posts: 212
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 2:11:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Nothing cheap and low(ish) performance is going to sell. People would rather have nothing and dream of a supership than buy a lower performance glider. Although lots of people will claim otherwise. Funny thing. Buying an old glider somehow covers the ego. Probably because what you get was once a supership. No fault of your own, that was 30 years ago.


HA! Tell that to the many thousands of hang glider and paraglider pilots out there enjoying flight in their "low" performance, low-cost soaring machines! THAT is the problem: There are much cheaper, no-license-required alternatives to sailplanes these days. And they are just as much fun.
  #49  
Old March 18th 17, 08:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 183
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

Relative performance to the class of aircraft. HG/PG pilots can buy the highest performance in HG/PG. Only reason some don't is unlike sailplanes HG/PG get sketchier the more performance you squeeze out of them.
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 10:51:07 AM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 2:11:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Nothing cheap and low(ish) performance is going to sell. People would rather have nothing and dream of a supership than buy a lower performance glider. Although lots of people will claim otherwise. Funny thing. Buying an old glider somehow covers the ego. Probably because what you get was once a supership. No fault of your own, that was 30 years ago.


HA! Tell that to the many thousands of hang glider and paraglider pilots out there enjoying flight in their "low" performance, low-cost soaring machines! THAT is the problem: There are much cheaper, no-license-required alternatives to sailplanes these days. And they are just as much fun.


  #50  
Old March 18th 17, 10:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 445
Default We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

Low capital cost isn't everything.

What's the depreciation on a high performance hang glider?

On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:55:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Relative performance to the class of aircraft. HG/PG pilots can buy the highest performance in HG/PG. Only reason some don't is unlike sailplanes HG/PG get sketchier the more performance you squeeze out of them.
On Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 10:51:07 AM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 2:11:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Nothing cheap and low(ish) performance is going to sell. People would rather have nothing and dream of a supership than buy a lower performance glider. Although lots of people will claim otherwise. Funny thing. Buying an old glider somehow covers the ego. Probably because what you get was once a supership. No fault of your own, that was 30 years ago.


HA! Tell that to the many thousands of hang glider and paraglider pilots out there enjoying flight in their "low" performance, low-cost soaring machines! THAT is the problem: There are much cheaper, no-license-required alternatives to sailplanes these days. And they are just as much fun.


 




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