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Berlin Airlift, IFR



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 12th 07, 09:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

In 1948-50 nothing could do that, but flights came from
England and other European countries.



"rstro" wrote in message
...
| so--in other words loaded transport aircraft returned
across the Atlantic to
| their home baese???? they couldn't have possibly carried
enough fuel for
| that???
| "Sam Spade" wrote in message
| ...
| George Z. Bush wrote:
|
| Paul wrote:
|
| Anybody know what type of instrument approaches were
used to fly the
| airlift into Berlin in the 40s?
|
|
| All aircraft involved used GCA approaches for landings.
There were no
| missed approach procedures.....if you missed your
approach, you were
| automatically cleared for return to your home base. In
that way, they
| were able to keep the flow of aircraft moving and on
schedule.
|
|
http://www.historynet.com/air_sea/ai...tml?page=3&c=y
|
| George Z.
|
|
|
| That, nonetheless, is a missed approach procedure.
|
|


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  #12  
Old February 12th 07, 09:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

John,

This was the
Cold War, the planes were based in England and more eastern locations:
Holland, Fance, West Germany...


England? First I hear about that. West Germany is were they came from,
it was a really short run for most. Flying boats took off in Hamburg
harbour, landing on the Wannsee.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #13  
Old February 12th 07, 09:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Eugene Griessel
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Posts: 35
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

Thomas Borchert wrote:

John,

This was the
Cold War, the planes were based in England and more eastern locations:
Holland, Fance, West Germany...


England? First I hear about that. West Germany is were they came from,
it was a really short run for most. Flying boats took off in Hamburg
harbour, landing on the Wannsee.


AFAIK the main routes in use originated from Lubeck, Fuhlsbuttel,
Fassberg, Celle, Wunstorf, Wiesbaden, Frankfurt and Rheinmain - and
the Flying boats that you mention. Various electronic Rebecca-Eureka
beacons were erected to "outline"(?) the three main air passages and
the runways equipped with radar for foul weather assistance. Gee was
extensively used and BABS at the Berlin runways. Pilots, at least from
the British sector, had to have the "green card" which certified
competency in blind landing techniques.

Those pilots were often damned good - especially at "seat of the
pants" foul weather flying! I remember flying into an airbase in a
C47 with a Berlin airlift veteran at the controls in fog so thick you
could barely see the nose of the aircraft. Once on the ground they
had to send a jeep with a flare to guide him to the apron!


Eugene L Griessel

Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
  #14  
Old February 12th 07, 09:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Richard Oh!
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Posts: 18
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

Tex Houston wrote:
"rstro" wrote in message
...
so--in other words loaded transport aircraft returned across the Atlantic
to their home baese???? they couldn't have possibly carried enough fuel
for that???



You don't know much airlift history, do you?

Tex


50,000 of the flights were made by the RAF from the UK and a further
14,000 flights were by civil aircraft, mainly from the UK.
--
Moving things in still pictures!
  #15  
Old February 12th 07, 02:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
nmg175
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR


"Tex Houston" wrote in message
.. .

"rstro" wrote in message
...
so--in other words loaded transport aircraft returned across the Atlantic
to their home baese???? they couldn't have possibly carried enough fuel
for that???



You don't know much airlift history, do you?

Tex


He thought they burned the coal from W.Virginia on their way back to
the Mines.


  #16  
Old February 12th 07, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,322
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

rstro wrote:
so--in other words loaded transport aircraft returned across the Atlantic to
their home baese???? they couldn't have possibly carried enough fuel for
that???


What makes you think they departed from the U.S.?
  #17  
Old February 12th 07, 03:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,322
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

Thomas Borchert wrote:

John,


This was the
Cold War, the planes were based in England and more eastern locations:
Holland, Fance, West Germany...



England? First I hear about that. West Germany is were they came from,
it was a really short run for most. Flying boats took off in Hamburg
harbour, landing on the Wannsee.


Perhaps there were some miscellaneous flights from the U.K. As I
recall, the "mainline" supply flights had less than 200 miles from
departure to landing.
  #18  
Old February 12th 07, 03:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Andrew Robert Breen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

In article , rstro wrote:
so--in other words loaded transport aircraft returned across the Atlantic to
their home baese???? they couldn't have possibly carried enough fuel for
that???
George Z. Bush wrote:
All aircraft involved used GCA approaches for landings. There were no
missed approach procedures.....if you missed your approach, you were
automatically cleared for return to your home base. In that way, they


WTF? What on Earth makes you think that the aircraft were operating across
the Atlantic? Many of the types used wouldn't have had the legs to do
that even unladen. If you look at any map from the 1950s-start 1990s
you'll see that Berlin actually lies not-awfully-far from the old border
(couple of hundred km-ish, from memory). The bases for the airlift were in
the American, British and French occupied zones - what later became the
Federal Republic.

--
Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales
"your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks"
(Peter D. Rieden)

  #19  
Old February 12th 07, 04:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
Ed Rasimus[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 04:19:44 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"John Godwin" wrote in message
.3.50...

In those days, it was GCA


It still is.


GCA = Ground Controlled Approach. PAR = Precision Approach Radar (A
GCA with both glide path and centerline guidance. ASR = Air
Surveillance Radar (A GCA with centerline guidance only, using
recommended minimum altitudes at various ranges from touchdown)

Both ASR and PAR are GCA.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
  #20  
Old February 12th 07, 04:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.ifr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Berlin Airlift, IFR

On Feb 11, 9:35 pm, John Godwin wrote:
Sam Spade wrote in news:l1Qzh.11876$c%2.1737
@newsfe12.phx:



It wasn't PAR?


In those days, it was GCA

--



Please explain the difference between GCA and PAR.......


John Hairell )
former GCA/PAR controller

 




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