Calling from a cell phone when airborne

Dave S wrote:

And.. to address legalities.. I've been told the letter of the law
applies to airborne use of ANALOG cellular phones? Does anyone know
specific chapter and verse of the FCC regs that spell this out, and does
it INCLUDE or EXCLUDE digital/later generation phones such as PCS which
do not confuse/saturate the cell towers when they are used up at altitude

Here's details on the reg.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/cel.../aircraft.html

and here's info on what's a cell phone.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/cellular

Note the "band" information in the table on the right. If a phone does not use these
frequencies, it's not a cell phone.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

its "dingus" not "Dingus" and its a complex technical word who's meaning
is variable depending on the context of the conversation or the
principle parties involved. Analagous to "whatchamacallit" or "thingamajig"

Regards,
Dave

Peter MacPherson wrote:
What is the Dingus? I've heard of Cellset to connect your cell phone to
your headset, but not Dingus.

Pete

"Dave S" wrote in message
nk.net...

I bought that 100 dollar dingus a year ago and it works great.. it also
doesnt involve having to remove your headset to USE the HF cell
speaker/mike. Using that 100 dollar dingus also allows me to use the ANR
feature of my headset to overcome airplane noise.. I also can use that
dingus to (so ive been told) record intercom traffic on tape/dvr/videocam.

And.. to address legalities.. I've been told the letter of the law
applies to airborne use of ANALOG cellular phones? Does anyone know
specific chapter and verse of the FCC regs that spell this out, and does
it INCLUDE or EXCLUDE digital/later generation phones such as PCS which
do not confuse/saturate the cell towers when they are used up at altitude

Dave

Elwood Dowd wrote:

Thanks for the note. I spent about $100 for a dingus that connects the
cell to an intercom, it sounds like this works just as well for about
$75 less!

(Legal wrangling aside, of course... I'm sure you only call using 1.9GHz
frequencies anyway)


Mike Noel wrote:


Just thought I would pass this experience along to the group:

I had been able to accomplish this a couple of times by throttling
back to
about 2000 RPM and slipping off my headphones. This weekend I

discovered

that the reception and transmission is quite good if you use a hands

free

headset with a dangling microphone. With the ear bud in your ear and

the

microphone inside the ear cup, the sidetone drives the phone's mike

just

fine.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
: Note the "band" information in the table on the right. If a phone does not use these
: frequencies, it's not a cell phone.

As an almost total aside, I got my Globalstar GSP-1600 satellite phone today.
This is the same phone handset used by controlvision for their weather data
delivery, though I did not buy it through controlvision and I do not intend
to use the controlvision software. I bought this thing for a (very) remote
data delivery project at work. I have not yet used the thing, but I will pass
along the pirep when I have.

The big limitation seems to be that the antenna has to be perfectly vertical,
with a clear view of the sky. It does not work inside a house, or in a car.
Presumably it could be used in an airplane if the phone were on the
glareshield.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

Aaron Coolidge writes:

As an almost total aside, I got my Globalstar GSP-1600 satellite phone today.

The big limitation seems to be that the antenna has to be perfectly vertical,
with a clear view of the sky. It does not work inside a house, or in a car.
Presumably it could be used in an airplane if the phone were on the
glareshield.

Others have had better experiences with Globalstar equipment.
http://skyhelp.net/field_trial.htm

--kyler

On 16-Jun-2004, Elwood Dowd wrote:

That's the one, and there's the rub. Most (all?) of the carriers use
digital signals on 800MHz cells. Some (most?) can also use a newer
1.9GHz network. You have to know what kind of phone you have, and what
network it is using at a given time.

Some carriers (Verizon, Cingular, AT&T) operate networks on different bands
(both 800 MHz and 1`.9 GHz). Others (Sprint, T-Mobile) operate only at 1.9
GHz. Nextel currently operates exclusively on a different 800-900 MHz band,
but will likely be migrating to a new 2 GHz band.



My Verizon phone displayes "1X" when it is in a 1.9GHz network, and is
therefore legal to use in the aircraft. It says "D" when in a standard
digital network and "A" in an analog network, neither of which is legal.

Not Quite. Verizon uses CDMA technology. 1X is the latest version of CDMA
and is used on both 800 MHz and 1.9 GHz networks. Which band you are
operating on will generally depend upon your current location, and may be
difficult for an untrained user to determine. When your phone displays "D"
it means CDMA operation, including the pre-1X version.


The 1.9GHz cells don't tend to broadcast or receive at extreme
angles---they are often unusable in the air above about 3000AGL. Also,
at 140kt, it's pretty easy to go from one network to another quickly, so
I normally only attempt to use it below 3000 and either in populated
areas or along interstate highways.

The height limitation in urban areas is due to the fact that from a
significant altitude the handset will receive too many "pilot channels" and
will not be able to discriminate between them. This phenomenon of CDMA is
called "pilot pollution". The TDMA and GSM technologies used by some
carriers have different problems associated with operation at altitude.


Of course none of this counts the numerous times I have left the damn
thing on and discovered it at 10k feet. I have yet to be pulled over by
the cell phone cops, or hear of anyone who has, so I wouldn't be too
concerned in any case.


One thing that is important to remember is that, regardless of frequency
band or system technology, when you use a cellphone in an airplane you are
likely CAUSING massive interference to the network, possibly resulting in
many dropped calls, even if it works for you. That is why it is prohibited
by regulation. Unfortunately, such behavior is difficult to detect, and the
violators are rarely apprehended. So, if you like to think of yourself as a
courteous "good guy" (like most GA pilots) you will act accordingly.

--
-Elliott Drucker

"Steve" wrote in message
. com...

The FCC regs apply to "Cellular Telephones". The description of
cellphones
in the licensing rules don't include the frequency bands or the modes of
operation that digital phones use. So, technically, digital phones are
not
"cellphones", though marketing types call them cell phones to keep the
average consumer from getting confused.

If you want to get technical, first generation aka 1G (analog), 2G
(digital), and 3G (also digital w/ higher capacity and data rates) phones
are communicate with the base station which covers a small area called a
cell. So technically they are all cellular phones. Also, most 2G phones use
the 1G frequencies. Many 2G phones will handoff to a 1G base station if
there is not a decent signal from a 2G base station. Also, many 1G
operators are reusing their 1G frequencies to provide 2G services on those
frequencies. Some companies like sprint and t-mobile dont have any 1G
frequencies, but even if you have a phone that supports the 1G frequencies,
it will roam onto those 1G frequencies if you go out of their coverage
areas. The only way you can guarantee that you will be on 2G frequencies is
to buy a phone from someone like sprint or t-mobile which only supports
1900MHz or a phone which allows you to disable the 850MHz range though I
have not seen any phones that do that. They normally just allow you to
disable the European frequencies (900/1800) if they are supported.

And just because you are not in a call does not mean you are safe. A cell
phone that is not in use is periodically communicating with the surrounding
base stations whenever it is on. So the only way to ensure you are not
transmitting is to turn it off.

"Elwood Dowd" wrote in message
...

47 CFR Part 22.925. This covers the cellular band of 824-894 MHz.
Does not call out the modulation or whether digital or analog.

That's the one, and there's the rub. Most (all?) of the carriers use
digital signals on 800MHz cells. Some (most?) can also use a newer
1.9GHz network. You have to know what kind of phone you have, and what
network it is using at a given time.

My Verizon phone displayes "1X" when it is in a 1.9GHz network, and is
therefore legal to use in the aircraft. It says "D" when in a standard
digital network and "A" in an analog network, neither of which is legal.


Careful, many CDMA2000 phones will operate in CDMA2000 1x mode in the 800
frequency range. According to this link, verizon is doing 1x in the 800
frequency range.

http://www.mobileisgood.com/nortelCustomers.html

"picopirate" writes:

If you want to get technical, first generation aka 1G (analog), 2G
(digital), and 3G (also digital w/ higher capacity and data rates) phones
are communicate with the base station which covers a small area called a
cell. So technically they are all cellular phones.

Don't let Patterson hear you say that.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...0earthlink.net

--kyler

Eek! So much for that idea. I guess my phone can't tell me when it is
in 1.9GHz mode. I have noticed that over the past two months I have had
exactly zero desire or need to make a call from the air anyway, though.
I did accidentally leave the thing on a couple of times.

picopirate wrote:
Careful, many CDMA2000 phones will operate in CDMA2000 1x mode in the 800
frequency range. According to this link, verizon is doing 1x in the 800
frequency range.

http://www.mobileisgood.com/nortelCustomers.html

And just because you are not in a call does not mean you are safe. A cell
phone that is not in use is periodically communicating with the
surrounding
base stations whenever it is on. So the only way to ensure you are not
transmitting is to turn it off.



This is why when you are doing explosive work, all phones need to be shut
off. because even if they are just sitting they will still transmit