Sport Pilot - School Won't Offer

Hi Robert,
Go to the FAA website, you will find the written test questions there as
well as the practical test standards. Surely a CFI can make a good sylibus
from the info gathered there. Enough to get you going anyway. Gleim already
has there books for sport pilots published, King too I would imagine. If
they got the info I am sure any CFI can.
And yes there will be Light Sport Category and Experimental Light Sport
as well as Certificated planes that already can be flown by "Sport Pilots" .
A Lot of models of Taylorcrafts, Aeroncas, Luscombes, Ercoupes, and even a
few Porterfields and Interstates!
It will in fact take time for all of this to take hold. Partly due to
the fact that everything the government touches takes forever! And probably
alot of CFI's and flight schools will take there time at "getting with the
program". I can't tell you the different CFI's I talked to in this area that
had no clue as to what the "Sport Pilot" even was. Some do not even care to
know! I would hope any CFI would be like a MD , and get all the latest info
..
Just think Robert, it may be time to get that taildragger time current!


Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
As a CFI, if someone walked up to me and asked for Sport Pilot
training, I might turn them down. We don't really have any reference
material for such a program. I guess we now have a PTS (check ride
standards) but there are no sylibus, etc for us to follow. Since none
of us have done one before we'd be winging it as to what to teach for
each lesson. We need enough CFIs to take students through the process
and then show the rest of us how it worked. Also, at this point, there
are no examiners in my area that are approved to give sport pilot
checkrides (or at least know how to do them).

Also, be aware. If you have a medical condition that disqualified you
for a medical certificate you CANNOT get a sport pilot certificate as a
way around the medical condition (my understanding).

-Robert

That's fair enough - you have a solid reason for making that decision.
I can understand that clearly.
You have provided a real business reason for that.

But this other school wasn't saying that.
Especially the manager came off as arrogant and caring less about my interests
than his personal opinion.
I guess, in a way, his attitude makes me less likely to go with them - his reactionary
statement as opposed to solid reasoning. Thus, is he likely to do that in training decisions?

It is completely fair to say you're not prepares, don't have the plane, don't know the whole game yet, etc.
You're answer is a good one.
And I also understand that not enough time has passed to develop a program and get the full rundown.

His take was that he's not interested, so he won't even learn or determine conditions under which
it might work or be beneficial. As a business person, I reject that type of reasoning to core of my being.
It seems to me like the manager of a flight school should have the ability to take "business" into
account - since he's running a business - and if he can't make a business case, great.

It shook my confidence in him . . .

Just a thought.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com...
As a CFI, if someone walked up to me and asked for Sport Pilot
training, I might turn them down. We don't really have any reference
material for such a program. I guess we now have a PTS (check ride
standards) but there are no sylibus, etc for us to follow. Since none
of us have done one before we'd be winging it as to what to teach for
each lesson. We need enough CFIs to take students through the process
and then show the rest of us how it worked. Also, at this point, there
are no examiners in my area that are approved to give sport pilot
checkrides (or at least know how to do them).

Also, be aware. If you have a medical condition that disqualified you
for a medical certificate you CANNOT get a sport pilot certificate as a
way around the medical condition (my understanding).

-Robert

Did you consider the recreational certificate? That's smth that you can
do in a 152,
and later upgrade it to a PP-ASEL.

Sport or recreational, it's probably more expensive to do first one of
them, and then upgrade to a PP-ASEL than just do the PP-ASEL

OTOH, did you consider gliders? They will make you a great pilot at a
faster pace and you'll get a PP-G which will later be possible to
upgrade to a PP-ASEL. Look at the r.a.soaring group and ssa.org for a
lead close to your home. You'll definitely become a much more
proficient power pilot if you start in a glider.

Good luck, and may your folks feel well!

wrote in
oups.com:

Did you consider the recreational certificate? That's smth that you
can do in a 152,
and later upgrade it to a PP-ASEL.

Sport or recreational, it's probably more expensive to do first one of
them, and then upgrade to a PP-ASEL than just do the PP-ASEL

OTOH, did you consider gliders? They will make you a great pilot at a
faster pace and you'll get a PP-G which will later be possible to
upgrade to a PP-ASEL. Look at the r.a.soaring group and ssa.org for a
lead close to your home. You'll definitely become a much more
proficient power pilot if you start in a glider.

Good luck, and may your folks feel well!


I disagree.

You get your Sport Pilot. Fly around for 100 or 200 hours, go back and
get your night work, hood work, and towered radio work training, except
that takes VERY little time because the airplane is now almost second
nature to fly. Then choose to get your PPL.

Except you may just decide SP is all you needed to begin with.


-ET

Recently, George Patterson posted:

Gary G wrote:

I will note that they don't have any planes that qualify - I don't
know how close a 152 is, but I think it's a bit over the limit.

That's it, right there. He'll change his tune if he ever gets a sport
aircraft on the line. You frequently find a similar opposition to the
use of automotive fuel from mechanics that have a stake in the sale
of 100LL.

There is another possibility. The flying club that I belong to is also a
flight school. They won't instruct for Sport Pilot for insurance reasons.
Their position is that people with that level of training are likely to be
higher risks, causing more incidents (if not accidents), and thus be a
vulnerability to the club.

Regards,

Neil

There is another possibility. The flying club that I belong to is also a
flight school. They won't instruct for Sport Pilot for insurance reasons.
Their position is that people with that level of training are likely to be
higher risks, causing more incidents (if not accidents), and thus be a
vulnerability to the club.

That's a good point. Another one concerns radio comms and transponders.
Since my club operates out of a 24-hour Class D airport (AGC) which sits
well within the 30-nm mode C veil for Pittsburgh's Class B, all aircraft
have to be properly equipped. And the sport pilot wannabes would have to be
trained to do radio work. At one point, we had one guy who owned a
LSA-qualified taildragger look into setting up a leasback with us in the
hope of attracting sport pilot students. But he would have had to add an
encoding transponder and probably some basic radio equipement to make it
work at our airport, and he decided not to bother.

I started in a glider and I would recommend everyone to do the same. Because
of my glider training I was able to do my PP-SEL in the bare minimums, 41
hours, I went over by an hour b/c I went for a solo flight to my prospective
college. I would have been under 40 hours if it weren't for the required 20
hours instruction. My last 6 hours of instruction were spent getting checked
out in a 172 and giving my instructor a tour of the tow I live in and the
town I work in. Learning how to "feel" an airplane is easy in a glider.
There's barely any radio, no tower, no VOR, but a whole lot of coordinated
flying, something that isn't as noticeable in a Powered plane. When I sat
down and calculated it, it could have been cheaper for me to do my PP-G then
continue to my PP-SEL than to go the other way around, if I had known I was
going to get my PP-SEL. At the time I thought I was just going to fly
gliders for the rest of my life. In any case, doing the required flights for
a glider, then doing the minimum of 40 hours for power was cheaper than
doing 65 hours of power then the 10 flights in a glider.
"ET" wrote in message
...
wrote in
oups.com:

Did you consider the recreational certificate? That's smth that you
can do in a 152,
and later upgrade it to a PP-ASEL.

Sport or recreational, it's probably more expensive to do first one of
them, and then upgrade to a PP-ASEL than just do the PP-ASEL

OTOH, did you consider gliders? They will make you a great pilot at a
faster pace and you'll get a PP-G which will later be possible to
upgrade to a PP-ASEL. Look at the r.a.soaring group and ssa.org for a
lead close to your home. You'll definitely become a much more
proficient power pilot if you start in a glider.

Good luck, and may your folks feel well!


I disagree.

You get your Sport Pilot. Fly around for 100 or 200 hours, go back and
get your night work, hood work, and towered radio work training, except
that takes VERY little time because the airplane is now almost second
nature to fly. Then choose to get your PPL.

Except you may just decide SP is all you needed to begin with.


-ET



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"Slick" wrote:
I started in a glider and I would recommend everyone to do the same. Because
of my glider training I was able to do my PP-SEL in the bare minimums, 41
hours, I went over by an hour b/c I went for a solo flight to my prospective
college. I would have been under 40 hours if it weren't for the required 20
hours instruction. My last 6 hours of instruction were spent getting checked
out in a 172 and giving my instructor a tour of the tow I live in and the
town I work in. Learning how to "feel" an airplane is easy in a glider.
There's barely any radio, no tower, no VOR, but a whole lot of coordinated
flying, something that isn't as noticeable in a Powered plane. When I sat
down and calculated it, it could have been cheaper for me to do my PP-G then
continue to my PP-SEL than to go the other way around, if I had known I was
going to get my PP-SEL. At the time I thought I was just going to fly
gliders for the rest of my life. In any case, doing the required flights for
a glider, then doing the minimum of 40 hours for power was cheaper than
doing 65 hours of power then the 10 flights in a glider.

I did the same thing and agree that it was a benefit to have learned *to
fly* in the glider first for some of the reasons listed above,
particularly your mention of the emphasis on coordinated flight. I
wouldn't say, however, that it's "less noticeable in a powered plane,"
rather that the amount of control input necessary for coordinated flight
in a Cessna, for example, is much less than in a glider.

Like everything, each individual is different. IMO, going to powered
aircraft from glider wasn't necessarily all THAT easy, and getting a
glider add-on (to PP SEL) takes a bit more than only "10 flights in a
glider" that you implied above. The FAA requires 3 hours dual + 10 solo
flights + checkride for Private Glider add-on (no additional written).
Not all add-ons finish in those minimum times/flights. FAA requires 10
hrs dual + 7 hrs solo + written exam and checkride for Private Glider
(not add-on). Not everyone finishes the rating in those minimums,
either, and depending on what time of year it is, where you do it, and
what glider you're flying, that *can* get expensive, too.

Learning the radio and associated towered/non-towered airport procedures
when you aren't used to doing ANY of that while you fly (our gliderport
and trainers do not use radios at all, nor do we travel to other
airports during Private Glider training) takes some getting used to and
practice. If you didn't do x-c glider, using the sectional while you fly
may also be a new experience as is some of the flight planning,
navigating to *go* somewhere, transitioning various airspaces, and
learning who to call and when (Flight Service, Flight Following, Center,
Approach, etc.). Depending on what aircraft you do the SEL in, it can be
quite different to go from the glider's tandem seating and stick to
sitting on the left using a yoke -- lining yourself up with the
centerline looks different when you're sitting on the left than when
you're sitting in the middle. Approaches are different ... my tendency
to make steeper approaches with minimum power and my SEL instructors'
(with no previous glider) tendency to make lower approaches with more
power drove each other a bit crazy, and I remember my glider
instructor(s) saying that PP SELs doing add-ons have the same reverse
tendency when making glider approaches. Doing a go-around is different!!
Coming into the pattern from every direction, depending on tower
instructions, was new and different as was learning how to estimate
distances when making calls to the tower and setting up left or right
base only vs. full pattern.

No additional written exam is required when going from SEL to Glider,
but another written exam *is* required going from Glider to SEL. Much of
the material is the same; the section on Systems is new.

In keeping with the topic, PP Glider doesn't require a medical.
Regardless of whether it is beneficial or "cheaper" to do glider before
or after SEL, glider does enhance one's understanding, and several SEL
pilots doing glider add-on have commented that the glider training
sharpened their SEL skills and understanding.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:32:00 -0500, "Gary G"
wrote:

Now that the Sport Pilot license is available, I inquired with my school.
The manager basically said "it's useless" and couldn't really see why anyone would
want it. Later in his conversation he says, "...unless someone just wants to fly around
their airport - you can't really go anywhere..." - which is only partially true
if one gets an endorsement on ADIZ, Class B, and Cross Country.
However, I see a great opportunity in this program, and would like it as a stepping
stone to my Private.

I got the same reaction when I insisted on getting a recreational cert
a few years ago. I still think I did the right thing--especially now
that sport pilot has come in and the rules have extended my privileges
to controlled airspace!

With a sport pilot cert you can fly across the United States. That's
someplace! Sheez.

Your FBO guy is just bad-mouthing a certificate that he doens't have
the training or the equipment to offer you. If you go to
www.pipercubforum.com/friendly.htm you will see some airfields that
offer instruction in Piper Cubs. I'll bet that most of them have
already twigged to sport pilot training, though it's true that
instructors may be hard to qualify so early in the game.

Good luck!





-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

Also, be aware. If you have a medical condition that disqualified you
for a medical certificate you CANNOT get a sport pilot certificate as a
way around the medical condition (my understanding).

Your understanding is wrong. If you were actually
previously turned down for a medical, then you'd be out of
luck, but not being able to pass a medical is not
disqualifying.

Strictly speaking, though, he was correct. Most of the older guys who
are interested in driver's license medicals are concerned about their
ability to pass the physical next time out, because of blood pressure,
vision, or similar concerns. They are willing to certify themselves
but afraid the flight surgeon might not agree.

The FAA would obviously agree with the flight surgeon but is willing
to go along with this variant of the Don't Ask / Don't Tell game.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net