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#1
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external oxygen port?
On our way home not long ago we landed in Denver with our oxygen
getting low. I asked for a fill and they gave it their best shot but our configuration didn't leave them sufficient space for all of the adapters they needed to use. The ride home was...well, I was glad that I had the oximeter. (As we went over the Mississippi my wife couldn't think of the word for barge. "Give me your finger!") I'd like to make filling the O2 easier - especially when I've got the rear baggage compartment loaded to the gills. An external O2 port seems like an answer. Another possibility is to have a more standard port (than what we have now) that's located on the ceiling or back wall just inside the baggage compartment door. If I had something like this I think I'd finally get a couple of O2 tanks for my hangar. That would make me more likely to have a full charge when I need it. Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec? Thank you. --kyler |
#2
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Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?
I would start with research in an Aztec Parts book and see if something similar was an option. I serviced oxygen on an Aztec recently. I remember the servicing port being on the right side aft of the rear window and before the horizontal stab. The gauge was in the overhead above the rear baggage area. I would think most of the parts would be available from salvage yards or readily manufactured like the lines. If you are going to do this it would be simpler from an approval standpoint to duplicate the Piper installation for everything including mounting the oxygen tank. The hardest part will probably be approval. I would talk to the IA who will approve the installation and get his take on it first. Depending on the cooperativeness of the local FSDO it could be really simple or a long drawn out affair. Using all Piper parts and manuals will be easier since that installation is already approved on Aztecs. There may be an STC as well for such an installation but that might mean purchasing a new bottle etc. If the problem is really getting connected to your bottle maybe purchasing the appropriate fitting would be a good compromise. In my experience most oxygen service regulators use a hose with a #4 B nut with a 37 degree flare. There seem to be three different sizes of service fitting. One takes a 7/16" wrench (most jets) and another a 3/4" wrench (most Mooneys plus IAI jets). The last type is for connecting directly to the bottle and takes at least a 1" wrench. This last fitting takes a flareless to flare adapter in order to attach the fitting to the hose on the service cart. John Dupre' |
#3
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#4
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I hate to rain on your parade, but I really like my portable O2 bottle. I
used to have a Saratoga with built in oxygen, and it was a pain in the neck to use and re-fill. The nice thing about portable is that if I am going somewhere with a heavy load and know I will not need oxygen, I just put the bottle in the car and the useful load goes up 50 pounds. Refills at the welding shop are a snap. "Kyler Laird" wrote in message ... (JDupre5762) writes: Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec? I would start with research in an Aztec Parts book and see if something similar was an option. I serviced oxygen on an Aztec recently. I remember the servicing port being on the right side aft of the rear window and before the horizontal stab. Whoa! That's interesting. That's opposite the side of the tank. The gauge was in the overhead above the rear baggage area. Yup. It's not great when filling nor in flight, but it works o.k. I would think most of the parts would be available from salvage yards or readily manufactured like the lines. If you are going to do this it would be simpler from an approval standpoint to duplicate the Piper installation for everything including mounting the oxygen tank. Indeed! I had no idea anything like that existed for the Aztec. I just have the plain (1966) factory installation. Perhaps it came on the later models. The hardest part will probably be approval. I would talk to the IA who will approve the installation and get his take on it first. Depending on the cooperativeness of the local FSDO it could be really simple or a long drawn out affair. Using all Piper parts and manuals will be easier since that installation is already approved on Aztecs. Agreed. I'm going to start asking around. There may be an STC as well for such an installation but that might mean purchasing a new bottle etc. This is the only oxygen-related STC I see. Capitol Aviation, Inc., Capitol Airport, Springfield, IL62705 SA3-94: PA-23 Series Narco 1016 antenna and/or remote compass transmitter,equipment shelf, oxygen bottle mounting. If the problem is really getting connected to your bottle maybe purchasing the appropriate fitting would be a good compromise. That's what I had planned, but it's still a pain to get to the fitting with the compartment full (as it usually is when I need a fill). I also don't like the stress on the parts there. I've had problems with the gauge and the shutoff valve. If I had something that I could top off with just a few simple steps while it's in the hangar, my whole attitude about keeping it topped would change. Thanks for the info! --kyler |
#5
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Kyler Laird wrote in news:kgoo41-gc5.ln1
@jowls.lairds.org: On our way home not long ago we landed in Denver with our oxygen getting low. I asked for a fill and they gave it their best shot but our configuration didn't leave them sufficient space for all of the adapters they needed to use. Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec? Maybe a simpler option, given that the FAA will get involved in any permanent installation. As I understand it, the real problem is not with the fill port, but rather with the adapters some FBO's need not fitting into the space. Go to your local welding gas supply company and have them order or make a short (12" to 18") extension hose. One end fits your fill port. The other end can be the same as your fill port *or* it can be some other connector if you are finding them more common at FBO's. Either way, no adapters near the aircraft fill port are needed. ----------------------------------------------- James M. Knox TriSoft ph 512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331 Austin, Tx 78721 ----------------------------------------------- |
#6
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"James M. Knox" writes:
Maybe a simpler option, given that the FAA will get involved in any permanent installation. I like simple. I like not having to involve the FAA. As I understand it, the real problem is not with the fill port, but rather with the adapters some FBO's need not fitting into the space. The location of the fill port (behind all of our luggage) *is* a problem. It's not the primary problem, but it's one I'd like to solve while I'm working on this. Go to your local welding gas supply company and have them order or make a short (12" to 18") extension hose. One end fits your fill port. The other end can be the same as your fill port *or* it can be some other connector if you are finding them more common at FBO's. Either way, no adapters near the aircraft fill port are needed. Is there a reasonable way to do this such that access to the valve on the tank is not required? I think I'd be quite happy using a 36" hose with a one-way (fill only) valve near the tank. Then I could put a common fitting on the other end with an easily-removed cap. That could drape over/through the baggage or even be "temporarily" tacked to the ceiling, leaving it readily accessible on trips. Is that a reasonable way to handle it? Is a one-way valve sufficiently safe? I'm guessing that something similar is done with the external fill ports. --kyler |
#7
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Kyler,
Been lurking here for a short while and thought I'd chime in. I'm not sure of the legality of any of this since I don't know all the different TSO's and other rules involved. 1. Have you considered getting an aluminum or carbon fiber tank for the oxygen? We changed to them on our ambulance and had a decrease in weight. This might help with your ability to add a pound or two of carried weight. Don't know what it would do to your weight and balance. Second, the filled volume is a couple of cubic feet delivered higher than a similar size steel cylinder. Same external size with thinner walls means more volume at the same pressure. Check with your supplier for details. This might mean fewer refills. But you would have to recalibrate your usage chart. 2. Is the system high pressure or low pressure to the front of the aircraft? If high pressure up front, you could possibly back fill by putting a T connector just before the regulator and be able to refill from the cockpit. Again, not an A&P or someone knowing the rules. Just using the problem presented to exercise my mind. MAH |
#8
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Kyler Laird wrote in
: I like simple. I like not having to involve the FAA. Is there a reasonable way to do this such that access to the valve on the tank is not required? I think I'd be quite happy using a 36" hose with a one-way (fill only) valve near the tank. Then I could put a common fitting on the other end with an easily-removed cap. Interesting question. I'm not sure of the answer. A gas supply (and equipment) shop might be able to guide you. Ignoring the issue that your temporary extension hose is now *permanently* attached G... Rather than a one-way valve, why not just a simple in-line valve? The place I use has a book, about a 1000 pages thick, of valves and connectors and hoses. It's like the "have it your way" burger folks. You just start picking one from group A, one from group B, ... A few days later it arrives in a padded package. ----------------------------------------------- James M. Knox TriSoft ph 512-385-0316 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331 Austin, Tx 78721 ----------------------------------------------- |
#9
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mah writes:
1. Have you considered getting an aluminum or carbon fiber tank for the oxygen? Yes, I replaced my thick(?) steel tank not long ago. I thought I should do something interesting while I was replacing. It turned out that there was no big benefit but the costs (financial and time/approval-wise) were high as I recall. We changed to them on our ambulance and had a decrease in weight. This might help with your ability to add a pound or two of carried weight. I'm not obsessed with shedding weight. (That was someone else.) I'm trying to eliminate hassle. Second, the filled volume is a couple of cubic feet delivered higher than a similar size steel cylinder. Same external size with thinner walls means more volume at the same pressure. Check with your supplier for details. This might mean fewer refills. But you would have to recalibrate your usage chart. It's usually just one or two of us sucking oxygen. I appreciate the advantage of greater capacity, but if I really want to stretch the duration I'll go with an electronic regulator (or two). I suspect that the cost (in the long run) will be lower. 2. Is the system high pressure or low pressure to the front of the aircraft? If high pressure up front, you could possibly back fill by putting a T connector just before the regulator and be able to refill from the cockpit. Yeah, I briefly thought about that too. I'm fairly sure that there's a regulator between the tank and the outlets that would cause problems. Again, not an A&P or someone knowing the rules. Just using the problem presented to exercise my mind. I appreciate it. --kyler |
#10
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"James M. Knox" writes:
Ignoring the issue that your temporary extension hose is now *permanently* attached G... Oh, yeah... Rather than a one-way valve, why not just a simple in-line valve? I was thinking that the valve should be located close to the tank (so that the hose isn't constantly "hot"), but I don't want to have to reach in there when I charge it. --kyler |
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