Paraglider pilot missing in eastern Nevada

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:52:26 AM UTC-8, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
Sad event.

In the accident report it mentions, "Of the upper lines still attached to the canopy, we can see that the vast majority were incorrectly
mounted." This was listed in the conclusions section as one of the contributing factors.

In the Recommendations section the report says that, "When re-lining a wing, ensure the lines are placed on the attachment tabs correctly. The loop of the lines must be held by the attachment tabs. Lines should not be attached with a lark’s foot as this significantly reduces their strength.. If you are unsure of the correct procedure, always consult with a professional."

This is unclear to me what the correct attachment method is. Anyone have the low down?

Thanks, John (OHM)

John,

This video illustrates the right, and wrong way to attach lines. https://youtu.be/o-PjtwytC5M

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 11:04:55 AM UTC-6, David Shelton wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:52:26 AM UTC-8, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
Sad event.

In the accident report it mentions, "Of the upper lines still attached to the canopy, we can see that the vast majority were incorrectly
mounted." This was listed in the conclusions section as one of the contributing factors.

In the Recommendations section the report says that, "When re-lining a wing, ensure the lines are placed on the attachment tabs correctly. The loop of the lines must be held by the attachment tabs. Lines should not be attached with a lark’s foot as this significantly reduces their strength. If you are unsure of the correct procedure, always consult with a professional."

This is unclear to me what the correct attachment method is. Anyone have the low down?

Thanks, John (OHM)
John,

This video illustrates the right, and wrong way to attach lines. https://youtu.be/o-PjtwytC5M

Dave,

Thanks. That explains all. The right way basically forms what looks like a "square knot" (especially on similar line sizes)

But (there is always a but) - It would seem that the correct way's "square knot" attachment method could, if it become loose, reform itself into the wrong way. That is, if I did it the wrong way, I could reform it into the correct way without having to completely undo the line(s).

While this could possibly happen from time to time it would not have happened on the "vast majority" (per the report) of connections.

Thanks again, John OHM

Recently sat in on a Zoom seminar about XC flying hang gliders in the Owens Valley, hosted by the SF Bay Area largest HG/PG club. The presenter is an experienced pilot. However several points he made, alarmed me. First he didn't recommend that anyone carry oxygen, as he doesn't, because he feels he doesn't get hypoxic. Second he claimed that he regularly flies above 18K', sometimes higher than 20K', w/o O2. I get hypoxic above 14K' in my LAK-12. No discussion of MOAs, unaware of Procedure Alpha on the Whites. Disdained aircraft radios in favor of ham radios. I've flown the Owens several times in a HG, and the conditions encountered made me decide to get a glider rating and use the right tool for flying XC there. The thought of flying XC in a PG in the mountains just makes me shake my head. That's a hard NO for me.

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 1:05:42 AM UTC-5, kenward1000 wrote:
Recently sat in on a Zoom seminar about XC flying hang gliders in the Owens Valley, hosted by the SF Bay Area largest HG/PG club. The presenter is an experienced pilot. However several points he made, alarmed me. First he didn't recommend that anyone carry oxygen, as he doesn't, because he feels he doesn't get hypoxic. Second he claimed that he regularly flies above 18K', sometimes higher than 20K', w/o O2. I get hypoxic above 14K' in my LAK-12.. No discussion of MOAs, unaware of Procedure Alpha on the Whites. Disdained aircraft radios in favor of ham radios. I've flown the Owens several times in a HG, and the conditions encountered made me decide to get a glider rating and use the right tool for flying XC there. The thought of flying XC in a PG in the mountains just makes me shake my head. That's a hard NO for me.

The presenter seems hypoxic at sea level.

T8

Tango Eight wrote on 12/10/2020 3:59 AM:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 1:05:42 AM UTC-5, kenward1000 wrote:
Recently sat in on a Zoom seminar about XC flying hang gliders in the Owens Valley, hosted by the SF Bay Area largest HG/PG club. The presenter is an experienced pilot. However several points he made, alarmed me. First he didn't recommend that anyone carry oxygen, as he doesn't, because he feels he doesn't get hypoxic. Second he claimed that he regularly flies above 18K', sometimes higher than 20K', w/o O2. I get hypoxic above 14K' in my LAK-12.. No discussion of MOAs, unaware of Procedure Alpha on the Whites. Disdained aircraft radios in favor of ham radios. I've flown the Owens several times in a HG, and the conditions encountered made me decide to get a glider rating and use the right tool for flying XC there. The thought of flying XC in a PG in the mountains just makes me shake my head. That's a hard NO for me.

The presenter seems hypoxic at sea level.

T8

The Mountain High electronic oxygen regulator was originally developed for HG pilots, because a
lot of them need it! Perhaps the next seminar should include Pat McLaughlin of Mountain High.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

While I never had the pleasure of meeting James Oroc, I know many of his gang.
I'm fairly sure he was well hydrated, on O2, had all the safety gear, had a plan ,was flying with a group, was very very experienced in BIG AIR, was living the dream; going XC in Nevada with friends on a booming day.
I was a Paraglider pilot.
While they have come a long way in safety and design, that fact of the matter is Paragliders do ALL sorts of bizarre incontrollable things, that even top rated pilots cannot control as James well knew and experienced. They are kept in place by very low pressure ram air. You are not physically attached to them, you are hanging by strings, very strong strings but strings never the less.
They suffer from collapses, half folds, line failure, Its a long list of crazy sh*t those things can do.
They often ball up in turbulence. Alot of pilots have 2 back up reserve chutes.
But there fun as hell to fly and very easy to learn. There very fun to thermal when their inflated.
For his friends and family I'm glad he was found.
Fly safe in 2021
Nick
T

Very well said Nick.
We are all in fact equally “crazy� for soaring, no matter if it s a PG, HG or sailplane, and have more or less the same chance of dying no matter how safe we believe we are.
The stats clearly shows that. All it takes is to be at the wrong place, the wrong time and the wrong decision, which can happen to any of us. The longer you fly, the higher your chances. I believe if we never aged and continued flying forever, it will eventually kill us....
As long as we understand the risk and willing to take it. I do.
Life without risk and adventure is just a bunch of birthdays strung together.

Ramy

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 6:59:09 AM UTC-8, wrote:
While I never had the pleasure of meeting James Oroc, I know many of his gang.
I'm fairly sure he was well hydrated, on O2, had all the safety gear, had a plan ,was flying with a group, was very very experienced in BIG AIR, was living the dream; going XC in Nevada with friends on a booming day.
I was a Paraglider pilot.
While they have come a long way in safety and design, that fact of the matter is Paragliders do ALL sorts of bizarre incontrollable things, that even top rated pilots cannot control as James well knew and experienced. They are kept in place by very low pressure ram air. You are not physically attached to them, you are hanging by strings, very strong strings but strings never the less.
They suffer from collapses, half folds, line failure, Its a long list of crazy sh*t those things can do.
They often ball up in turbulence. Alot of pilots have 2 back up reserve chutes.
But there fun as hell to fly and very easy to learn. There very fun to thermal when their inflated.
For his friends and family I'm glad he was found.
Fly safe in 2021
Nick
T

I believe if we never aged and continued flying forever, it will eventually kill us....
I believe if we age and continue flying it will kill us much sooner than that. This is highly controversial topic.. I imagine some irate responses here... FAA retirement age used to 60 and now relaxed to 65. Rought rule of thumb? I don't know what the right age is but it is probably different for each person. Question is, will each person know when it is time.

.. Question is, will each person know when it is time.

My father was a long-time pilot, and when he hit 60, he told me he started to carry a $100 bill in his wallet. It was for the first guy who told him it was time to hang it up and stop flying. Since he made the decision to quit on his own, he gave the $100 to the kids on the flight line who used to help him pull his Bonanza out of the hangar, fuel it and wash it. If I remember correctly, he gave several of these $100 bills out to more than just a few line kids.

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 5:08:18 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
Yeah 500km was a bit of a stretch, but 300Km are not uncommon in many places.
100-200km are pretty common in the areas I fly. These are typically straight distance, not yo-yos.
The point is that they actually fly further than many sailplane pilots in some of the places I fly, which is very respectful distance for a bag with less than 10:1 glide ratio.

Ramy
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 10:10:03 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Often fly 300-500km? Often??? Sebastian Kayrouz just set the record of 501 in the US a couple months ago. Take a zero off that comment and you might be closer to the truth. I find it difficult to compare Paragliding and Hang gliding to sailplanes. Its really a different breed. That said i agree they are capable under the most specific conditions with very high skilled pilots.

DC



On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
Tom you realize you don’t know what you talking about? Paragliders fly much faster and farther than you think. In fact some of these guys often fly 300-500km in paragliders.
Also the safety record of “these idiots� as you call them is in fact better than gliders. There are many more paraglider pilots and paraglider flights than sailplanes, with lower fatality rate. Sure they get injured much more often, but most of their accidents are survivable. We lost more glider pilots in Nevada than paraglider pilots. They certainly carry a lot of water with them, and can easily land on any dirt road and walk. And since many of them are younger and in better shape than many of us, they can walk out 20+ miles to the nearest road. They fly with 2M ham radios which reaches far more than “few miles� I believe further than our hand held radios, and can also use ham relays and other technologies. And most of them fly with trackers.
Perhaps non soaring pilots can make judgments on anyone who chose to fly light aircrafts without engines in the middle of nowhere, but not us.

Ramy

Well, Ramy, I am happy to see you admit what you wrote isn't true. But that untruth was intended to disparage what I wrote. The accident investigation bears out my take on it far more than yours. This guy made improper modifications to his wing and flew it over gross, both of which contributed to his death. And he encountered extreme turbulence beyond the capabilities of this aircraft to handle, which could have been predicted. The definition of an idiot is "a foolish or stupid person." The accident details in this report definitely shows, at least to me, that James was either foolish or stupid or both.

Tom