Russian Military Technology

The Yugoslavs returned to the arms control treaty/inspections within
months
of the end of the conflict. The last time that they exchanged information
was January 1999 when they pulled out due to the on-going Kosovo
crisis.Apart from the Dayton Accord they also rejoined the Vienna Document
and in late 1999 revealed that they had lost 18 MBT and 136 ACV. They also
revealed that they had lost 50 fixed wing combat aircraft and 11 combat
helicopters.

The problem with using those statistics is that those only show operational
equipment (atleast that is how I understand it), so damaged equipment would
show as a loss too.

No it's not, but I'm talking about pictures I've seen personally, not a
collection of pictures of every hulk in Kosovo. The pictures I saw were
taken
by an Air Force Tactical Air Controller assigned to the first US Army unit
to
move into Kosovo. Over his 4 month deployment he had access to about 1/4
of
Kosovo and took pictures of 12 tanks and armored vehicles. If we assume
the
rest of Kosovo was equally littered, that's 48 tanks. I'm not contending
we hit
48 tanks, just pointing out that 1 US Air Force ETAC took pictures of more
destroyed vehicles than the Serbs admitted were destroyed. Could they be
lying?

Well perhaps they have the same "total loss" system that US has: unless its
in 10 kg bits, it ain't a total loss

Alejandro Magno wrote:

America entered the war in Europe in summer 1944 when Germany was in
constant retreat from the Eastern front since summer 1943.

guffaw

Anzio and Sangro, they're just names,
We only came to look for dames.
We are the D-Day Dodgers
Way out in Italy.

Yes, I know it's a British song, but the men of U.S. Fifth Army could
also lay claim to it after a slight like that last one.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

noname wrote:
Russian SUPER technology page http://www.funet.fi/~timaham/toilet/

American technology is so reliable that fails before the mission
begins:
http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/host...empt/id14.html

My respect to those AMERICAN HEROES who lost their lives trying to
rescue their countrymen, but American technology did not cooperate.

More he http://www.iraqwar.ru

"And so we had Afghanistan, when the most powerful air force in the
world ridiculously bombed fuzzy-wuzzies in sandals and turbans. The
latest technology was used, with bombs costing thousands of times more
than the worth of their targets"

"And after Afghanistan we had Iraq II. This war on Iraq was initiated
solely because the country, situated only a few miles away from the
bandit, terrorist state, could pose a potential future threat to it."

Taken from he http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1382

and there is more for my proud American friends:
"Afghanistan never attacked the United States. Iraq never attacked the
United States. Israel did -- and the United States immediately
surrendered.
The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty.

Israel will fiercely combat the truth, for it is the one weapon
against them in which they have no defense."

taken from: http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread...threadid=52499

More information at http://www.ussliberty.org (a knife in the back of
America by her "ally")

Who is Jonnatan Pollard ? ups .. ups.... ups .... another stab in the
back

And what about Mr. Lavon ?
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/1spy/Lavon.html
ups .. ups ... ups ... another stab in the back

Shooting planes down with civilians
http://www.mathaba.net/info/flight114.htm
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/974655/posts

Americans like hunting, Israelis, too.
http://geocities.com/mossadlibrary/trophy.html

Poor jewish woman:
http://islamonline.net/English/News/...rticle04.shtml

A palestinian boy playing with a tank:
http://www.giwersworld.org

Who is the secretary of Defense ?
http://www.nowarforisrael.com
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/12/Counterpunch_1.html
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=11325
http://nogw.com/warforisrael.html

Highest IQ in the world:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1575
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...storyid=703396


I still do not uderstand, America needs oil, the arabs have the oil,
an America is on Israel side. Can someone explain that to me ?

Americans really know how to get along between each other:
Poor little girl
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/docs/joyner_shark.mp3
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1091


I thought that Americans were Christians, but a special kind of
Christians, Christians who do not read the BIBLE.

Learn from me, lets spell the word "BIBLE".

B. Basic
I. Intructions
B. Before
L. Living
E. Earth

Are you still with me or is it too complicated ?

Now, lets read the BIBLE, today passage is John 7:13

"Others replied, "No, he deceives the people." But no one would say
anything publicly about him for fear of the Jews."

Do not believe me ?

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/...&version=N IV


Americans have a great education:
http://www.ocpathink.org/Education/W...ohnnyRead.html
"In the government schools, hundreds of thousands of graduates from
the twelfth grade cannot read their own diplomas...."

Per capita, Chile is almost as rich as America:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1388

Nice country you got !!!!

The only politician who is a real AMERICAN is Pat Buchanan.

But Americans do not listen. They want to live their little happy
lives inside the MATRIX fed by propaganda coming from jewishland.

http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwrdet.htm
http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/usafuture.htm

Enjoy what is left of your country.

Alejandro Magno III

(Alejandro Magno)
Date: 1/4/2004 4:52 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message
...
You should be grateful to Mother Russia, it was Mother Russia who
defeated the Nazis, otherwise there would be a swastika flying on the
top of the White House in Washington, DC, and on the Tower of London.

I beg all the readers of this to *not* re-open that debate!! There is no
conclusive evidence either way and all we get are the resident kooks like
our
friend here throwing around insults....

There is no debate. Soviet Union won the war in Europe. Stalingrad the
largest battle in the history. Kurks the largest tank battle.

It's spelled Kursk.

America entered the war in Europe in summer 1944 when Germany was in
constant retreat from the Eastern front since summer 1943.

The British and American bombing of Europe in 1942,1943 and 1944 doesn't count?

How about North Africa, Sicily and Italy?

Hitler
started to execute Jews in 1942(after the Wannasse conference),
America did nothing for the Jews.

Tell that to the Jews who were murdered starting not long after the invasion of
Poland. How about Baba Yar? That was before Wannsee. Please note the correct
spelling.

The only reason of D-Day was to stop uncle Joe Stalin from washing his
boots on the Portugal coast. "Clash of Titans" from Amazon.com

Yes, as a tertiary reason for the invasion. Liberating Europe was the primary,
taking pressure off the Soviets was secondary.

In other words, D-Day was the first confrontation of the Cold War.

Only in your mind.

Great, so not only are you a Russian/Soviet fanatic, but a racist to
boot.........
BUFDRVR

I am proud of my relatives and ancestors, are you ?

Magno

Once again you don't let facts actually stop you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
om...
Either way, Russian hardware has never performed up to expectations in
real
battle.

Kursk ?

I would note that Kursk was fought by the SOVIETS, not the Russians.

The best tanks of WW2 were Soviet and German. Even the French had
better tanks than America.

I would also note that Germany's "better" tanks lost, as did France's
"better" tanks. Also note that LeClerc's French Armored Division that
rolled into Paris AFTER if was liberated was riding in American Sherman
tanks.


Russian tanks were wiped off the battlefield in Iraq (twice). Russian
aircraft were wiped out of the sky over Bekaa, Kosovo, Libya and Iraq.
Russian anti-aircraft defenses were pushed into the dustbin of history
in
Syria, Viet Nam, Serbia and Iraq.

Really ?

Yes, really. The Syrians alone lost 85 Soviet-built planes in the 1982
Lebanon campaign, and managed to shoot down 0 US-built planes.

Russian submarines sink by themselves.

Just like the USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion.

Yes. However, the Soviets managed to lose at least 5 subs, one of which
still sits in 15,000 feet of water off Norway.

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
om...

Mother Russia is 1,500 years old and she has never been defeated.

Actually, "Mother Russia" wasn't a state until about 1400 AD. That would
make them about 600 years old.

As for defeated, I note you avoid the Tartars kicking ass and occupying
'Russia" for nearly 250 years.

Catherine the Great was a great woman. I wish we could have more like
her.

Umm, Catherine was GERMAN. She ruled over your precious Russians and was
the best they had until the Revolution.

From: (Alejandro Magno)

snip

Shooting planes down with civilians
http://www.mathaba.net/info/flight114.htm
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/974655/posts


KAL 007 ring a bell?

If you are going to bash be fair about it.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"Alejandro Magno" wrote in message
om...
Either way, Russian hardware has never performed up to expectations in
real
battle.

Kursk ?

I would note that Kursk was fought by the SOVIETS, not the Russians.

The best tanks of WW2 were Soviet and German. Even the French had
better tanks than America.

I would also note that Germany's "better" tanks lost, as did France's
"better" tanks. Also note that LeClerc's French Armored Division that
rolled into Paris AFTER if was liberated was riding in American Sherman
tanks.


Russian tanks were wiped off the battlefield in Iraq (twice). Russian
aircraft were wiped out of the sky over Bekaa, Kosovo, Libya and Iraq.
Russian anti-aircraft defenses were pushed into the dustbin of history
in
Syria, Viet Nam, Serbia and Iraq.

Really ?

Yes, really. The Syrians alone lost 85 Soviet-built planes in the 1982
Lebanon campaign, and managed to shoot down 0 US-built planes.


Also consider that the Israelis were flying aircraft of foreign origin which
invalidates Russian claims that their aircraft would fare much better if
Russians were flying them. In any case, either their aircraft don't perform
or the Russians are really poor teachers.

Isreali techniques for defeating the Syrian sam defenses were adopted by the
Americans in the first Gulf War. One of the interesting stories is how the
US came up with drones nearly from scratch while the build-up was ongoing.
By the time hostilities started, the US had a fleet of drones that it used
to sucker the sam sites into turning on their radars. Iraqi air defenses
were wiped out pretty much the first day.

The Iraqi-US tank battles of the first Gulf War are pretty interesting to
read about in detail. That was when there were no sanctions and Saddam was
buying Russia's best tanks.

Khadafi's confrontation with the US Navy was a washout for him.

Serbs lost their SAM sites and their Air Force was relegated to hangar guard
duty. It doesn't matter much if you have an Air Force if you can't/won't fly
it.

Russian submarines sink by themselves.

Just like the USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion.

Yes. However, the Soviets managed to lose at least 5 subs, one of which
still sits in 15,000 feet of water off Norway.


The waters around Russia are littered with the rusting hulks of their
submarines, many of them still with their reactors.

I went to the fights and all of the sudden a hockey game broke out.

Afghanistan just ratified a new constitution.
Saddam is in jail and power will be turned over to the Iraqis in just 6
months time.
Libya has dismantled its WMD
There may be potential for friendly dialogue with Iran.

With each country that joins the family of nations, more attention is
focused on the remaining few.

If Iran decides to behave in a civilised manner, then we have to look closer
at North Korea. Cuba and Venezuela come next. Then we have to do some
cleanup on Syria and whatever troublemakers remain out there.

Has Bush made Americans safer since 9/11? You betcha. There's still lots
more to do though.

I don't think Dean the Daschle clone is going to have a chance against Bush
to be honest. Neither Bush or Dean are very likable but Bush has proven he
gets things done. Dean is just the loudmouth schoolyard bully. He didn't
accomplish anything in Vermont. If Al Gore was president, he would have
fired a couple cruise missiles into the Indian Ocean and proclaimed victory
over the Taliban and Saddam.

If Al Gore was president, both repressive regimes would still be in power.

If must rile all you ultra-liberal Euro-socialists to know that in the big
scheme of things, it is the US that controls your destiny.