Question on Baron 58 prop control

Well Al....

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect and appreciate that...

But....

Mx posted a good question, AND (in my opinion) got some good
answers...

AND

I learned some stuff about turbines from following this thread.

I am ahead, thanks to his question, and the responses that followed.

Please respect the fact that some of us will reply,(it is our choice
and privilage) - I will if I have the time and feel I have something
meaningful to offer.

If Mx appreciates it , OK. If he does not, well, that's OK too...

But many "lurkers" learn much from replies in this group. and THEY
appreciate the responses. I can speak for only myself if you wish...I
have been a subscriber for so long I cannot remember, and have learned
and gained SO MUCH from the posts and replies in this group.

Regards, no flame intended....


Dave





On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:09:37 GMT, A Lieberma
wrote:

"Doug" wrote in news:1164680980.670569.130090
:

And that is why a sim will NEVER be like true flight. With a sim, if
you crash, you crashed and you are ok. With a real airplane, you
crashed, and that's IT! No more you. A different headspace, attitude,
whatever you want to call it.

Hey Doug,

Having been there done this with Mx (sim vs real world), you are wasting
your time with Mx as he is a troll (as you will note from his reply to
you). Just check out his recent postings and you will clearly see this.

You just may want to ignore Mx's postings and reply to those who really
appreciate the time you take in answering their questions.

Thanks!

Allen

Dave wrote in
:

Mx posted a good question, AND (in my opinion) got some good
answers...

Yes, I agree with you with the above Dave.

Here lies the problem, is that he will make assumptions that MSFS is like
the real deal, and when pilots call him to task (I.E. flying in IMC) he
creates unecessary noise. It's the extra noise level that needs to go
away.

I have said before and continue to say, he does ask good questions, and
gets good replies, but he does not respect the folks that have "been
there and done it" and that degrades every thread he has contributed to.

I learned some stuff about turbines from following this thread.

I am ahead, thanks to his question, and the responses that followed.

Agree, and probably because engines are not as dynamic as weather, real
world flying and the like. Engines are somewhat (note I say somewhat)
more cut and dry, and if you noticed, the noise level on this thread has
been very tolerable (though I have not been following it since it doesn't
interest me).

Please respect the fact that some of us will reply,(it is our choice
and privilage) - I will if I have the time and feel I have something
meaningful to offer.

But why do this? He isn't giving you the time of the day on his replies?
I don't like disrespect, and you having been there and done it goes a lot
further then any MSFS experience. Correct? Do you like him telling you
that real world experiences is the same as a sim in IMC? You know it's
not the same so why battle it out with him. Take it to email if it goes
off tangent and let the rest of us enjoy the peace and tranquility the
group had before Mx's arrival.

appreciate the responses. I can speak for only myself if you wish...I
have been a subscriber for so long I cannot remember, and have learned
and gained SO MUCH from the posts and replies in this group.

And I have too, I am the very first one to admit the above, thus my own
contributions to real world experiences, good and bad. If you only knew
the heat (maybe you do!) I took on landing with one landing brake on a
downwind situation. But I learned from it, and sure hope others did too!
(getting my on topic subject here) :-) Look up my posting history and you
will clearly see, not only do I try to help, but I also share my real
world experiences for others to learn from.

Regards, no flame intended....

Nah, your input is important, but unfortunately it doesn't change my
position that we need to get Mxmaniac off the rec.aviation newsgroups and
back to the sim groups, so I will continue to advise new comers that
they are dealing with a troll with the hopes they don't get drawn into
these long unecessary threads comparing sim vs real flight. Save that
for the sim groups.

Allen

Steve,

The drives in most laptops are now interchangeable.


I know, but laptop drives aren't as much in the "virtually free"
category as normal-size HDs.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Recently, Dave posted:

Well Al....

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect and appreciate that...

But....

Mx posted a good question, AND (in my opinion) got some good
answers...

AND

I learned some stuff about turbines from following this thread.

I am ahead, thanks to his question, and the responses that followed.

If Mx appreciates it , OK. If he does not, well, that's OK too...

[...]
But many "lurkers" learn much from replies in this group. and THEY
appreciate the responses. I can speak for only myself if you wish...I
have been a subscriber for so long I cannot remember, and have learned
and gained SO MUCH from the posts and replies in this group.

I agree with you on the above. In most cases, the questions Mxsmanic asks
are on-topic for this group, and the answers from the vairous pilots have
been enlightening to me. While I understand the frustration and even the
anger of some in this group due to Mxsmanic's attitude, irresponsible
disregard for the harm that his misinformation might cause, and his
thinly-veiled insults, this is usenet. Anthony or others of his ilk will
pop up from time to time, and the best we can do is call B.S. on posts
that are factually incorrect and move on.

Neil

Recently, Thomas Borchert posted:

Steve,

The drives in most laptops are now interchangeable.


I know, but laptop drives aren't as much in the "virtually free"
category as normal-size HDs.

Add to that the laptop's pre-installed OS with proprietary features and no
installation discs, and in many cases it is more of a hassle than it's
worth.

Neil

Well MX, I don't consider myself risking my life at all when I climb
into our airplane.

Without exception I am off on a wonderful adventure, confident enough
in my skill, my training and my aircraft to bring my passengers and
self back to earth safely and for me, all to soon.

Now re sims..

I was one of the Early " Airwarrior" sim pilots, the original WWII
air combat sim.

(90% of the "players" (poor term, but it will do) were "real" pilots,
private, ATP, instructors, military.......

I have flown on 2 - 3 hr "missions" escorting bomber groups, ground
attack missions and others that left me totally wiped but so wound up
that sleep was impossible.

A good sim can make you forget you are grounded.The fights were fast,
furious and the sim aircraft were accurately modeled, so you had to
know how to fly each different aircraft, it's strengths and
weaknesses. - and you could die without getting hurt!

Sims have their place. I picked a friend just after he went through a
"sim" session, (He was training in a new type, 737 I think)

He was a MESS! They had piled several failures on him, he had to
change his clothes, he was soaked, and actually shaking a bit, and
his voice was unsteady. Maybe a sim, but what they put him through
was "real" enough! (he passed)

I may just dig out my old HOTAS stuff someday...

Dave


On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:06:19 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Doug writes:

And that is why a sim will NEVER be like true flight. With a sim, if
you crash, you crashed and you are ok. With a real airplane, you
crashed, and that's IT! No more you. A different headspace, attitude,
whatever you want to call it.

A good simulator can very rapidly make you forget that it's just a
simulator. This is hard with MSFS because it doesn't move or provide
the physical environment of a cockpit, but if it did, you'd start
mistaking it for real pretty quickly.

Even as it is, it can be stressful when things go wrong in the sim
environment.

If you prefer risking your life for real, that's your choice.
Personally, I see that as a drawback to real flight, not an advantage.

Dave wrote in
:

Sims have their place. I picked a friend just after he went through a
"sim" session, (He was training in a new type, 737 I think)

He was a MESS! They had piled several failures on him, he had to
change his clothes, he was soaked, and actually shaking a bit, and
his voice was unsteady. Maybe a sim, but what they put him through
was "real" enough! (he passed)

Probably two factors that brought on the sweat factor (and realism).

A. It probably was a full motion sim (or sim where he sat in it rather
then in front of a computer)

B. He had a job riding on the outcome

Much different then sitting in front of a computer monitor PLAYING MSFS

Allen

Dave writes:

A good sim can make you forget you are grounded.

Yup. And it is surprising how simple the simulation can be in order
to accomplish this. Not every single detail need be simulated; if the
right details are simulated, your brain will fill in the rest, often
in a way that's at least as vivid as the real thing.

The fights were fast,
furious and the sim aircraft were accurately modeled, so you had to
know how to fly each different aircraft, it's strengths and
weaknesses. - and you could die without getting hurt!

My little adventure a few days ago trying to fly IFR from Boston to
JFK was quite taxing. The mere fact that I don't smell the jet fuel
or feel the aircraft rumbling along the taxiway beneath me didn't
matter very much.

I notice that serious simmers are careful not to "step out of
character." Everything is done as in real life, and after a while you
forget that it's not real life. If a controller has to deal with a
pilot who has declared a serious emergency, it gets very draining to
bring him in to a safe landing. The fact that he simply made up the
emergency and then everyone played along with it doesn't matter.

To some extent, I think that people who have trouble taking simulation
seriously may also have trouble taking the real thing seriously. And
simulation also requires following certain rules and exercising a
certain amount of discipline; people who cannot do that for the
purposes of simulation may also have trouble doing it in other
situations ... including while flying a real plane. "Oh, I don't need
to listen to that controller--I know what I'm doing and he's just
following some stupid procedure."

Sims have their place. I picked a friend just after he went through a
"sim" session, (He was training in a new type, 737 I think)

He was a MESS! They had piled several failures on him, he had to
change his clothes, he was soaked, and actually shaking a bit, and
his voice was unsteady. Maybe a sim, but what they put him through
was "real" enough! (he passed)

Full-motion sims have an evil reputation, perhaps in part because the
instructors operating them seem to often have a sadistic streak. But
I think that pilots who have been through the wringer in a sim will
still agree that it's worth the trouble.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

A Lieberma writes:

Probably two factors that brought on the sweat factor (and realism).

A. It probably was a full motion sim (or sim where he sat in it rather
then in front of a computer)

B. He had a job riding on the outcome

No, there's one important factor that does it all: He was capable of
taking simulation seriously. Some people aren't. And that's
unfortunate, because it prevents them from learning things in
simulation that could save their lives, and sometimes it causes them
to lose their jobs.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I agree Neill..

As long as the posts are on topic, I have no issue...

And.. I must confess, I can stand a little "OT" sometimes if it is
interesting...

Mx sure gets some interesting threads started..

And his questions sure get some people thinking..and some answers are
coming from (I believe) very knowledgable people..

I read, I ignore the BS, I learn... been that way here (for me)
since 1993.

I "morphed" to this group from FIDO... anybody remember that?

Cheers!

Dave


On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:16:58 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Recently, Dave posted:

Well Al....

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect and appreciate that...

But....

Mx posted a good question, AND (in my opinion) got some good
answers...

AND

I learned some stuff about turbines from following this thread.

I am ahead, thanks to his question, and the responses that followed.

If Mx appreciates it , OK. If he does not, well, that's OK too...

[...]
But many "lurkers" learn much from replies in this group. and THEY
appreciate the responses. I can speak for only myself if you wish...I
have been a subscriber for so long I cannot remember, and have learned
and gained SO MUCH from the posts and replies in this group.

I agree with you on the above. In most cases, the questions Mxsmanic asks
are on-topic for this group, and the answers from the vairous pilots have
been enlightening to me. While I understand the frustration and even the
anger of some in this group due to Mxsmanic's attitude, irresponsible
disregard for the harm that his misinformation might cause, and his
thinly-veiled insults, this is usenet. Anthony or others of his ilk will
pop up from time to time, and the best we can do is call B.S. on posts
that are factually incorrect and move on.

Neil