500 foot rule and pilot opinion poll

I suggest that glider pilots are, as a group, no where near as skilled as
those pilots and to permit glider pilots to execute down to the deck high
speed finishes at an airport does seem imprudent. The simple fact is we
legislate good judgment all over the place and some glider pilots do not
exercise good judgment.

Ivan

Hmmmm....I see no Ivan Kahn on the US Pilot Ranking List which means either
you have never raced or maybe you're simply not giving us your real name.
Sounds like you must know a lot about the skill level of racing pilots
though. Too bad you won't be allowed to vote in the poll.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

"Pat Russell" wrote in message
...
We are all free to choose our own tactics, but I disagree with
yours.

Unless you're very good at predicting the future, the best time
to finish is exactly at MT, with or without the 15-minute rule.


You also must be very good at predicting the future to landing at "exactly
MT"

"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message news:nEqab.42131$n94.18608@fed1read04...
I suggest that glider pilots are, as a group, no where near as skilled as
those pilots and to permit glider pilots to execute down to the deck high
speed finishes at an airport does seem imprudent. The simple fact is we
legislate good judgment all over the place and some glider pilots do not
exercise good judgment.

Ivan

Hmmmm....I see no Ivan Kahn on the US Pilot Ranking List which means either
you have never raced or maybe you're simply not giving us your real name.
Sounds like you must know a lot about the skill level of racing pilots
though. Too bad you won't be allowed to vote in the poll.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

It is his real name and I would not totally dismiss somebody's opinion
just because they are not on the ranking list.
One big reason for this is constest pilots need to think about making
the rules appeal to new contest pilots also.
Similar to the [John Cocharan's?] suggestion that rules should work
for all pilots - not just the most experience, it should be a fun and
safe contest for even the guy who is flying his first race.

Chris Ruf
my real name and yes you will find it Low on the ranking list.

Dumbing down competition for people who don't know how to do it but want to
participate with everyone else is not fair to the pilots who have worked
many years to learn the craft. It's supposed to be hard!


"chris" wrote in message
m...
"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message
news:nEqab.42131$n94.18608@fed1read04...
I suggest that glider pilots are, as a group, no where near as skilled
as
those pilots and to permit glider pilots to execute down to the deck
high
speed finishes at an airport does seem imprudent. The simple fact is
we
legislate good judgment all over the place and some glider pilots do
not
exercise good judgment.

Ivan

Hmmmm....I see no Ivan Kahn on the US Pilot Ranking List which means
either
you have never raced or maybe you're simply not giving us your real
name.
Sounds like you must know a lot about the skill level of racing pilots
though. Too bad you won't be allowed to vote in the poll.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

It is his real name and I would not totally dismiss somebody's opinion
just because they are not on the ranking list.
One big reason for this is constest pilots need to think about making
the rules appeal to new contest pilots also.
Similar to the [John Cocharan's?] suggestion that rules should work
for all pilots - not just the most experience, it should be a fun and
safe contest for even the guy who is flying his first race.

Chris Ruf
my real name and yes you will find it Low on the ranking list.

"BMacLean" wrote in message
...
Dumbing down competition for people who don't know how to do it but want
to
participate with everyone else is not fair to the pilots who have worked
many years to learn the craft. It's supposed to be hard!

Could not have stated it more perfectly Barb.

Casey

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...

As I understand the rule, it's not just a matter of popping above the
500' agl floor of the cylinder. You'd have to thermal up, go back to
the outside of the 2 mile cylinder, and fly from there to the 1 mile
cylinder while staying above 500' agl. In the the situation you
describe, would you still be likely to try that weak thermal, or would
you just go ahead and land?

Bad rules proposal!

As they do out on course, pilots will stop trying to get somewhere,
and start trying to get back up to avoid losing their speed points at
some personally determined altitude.

That includes the pilots that could be making a safe, routine rolling
finish for speed points under the present rules!

Some pilots will fly safely whatever the rules. Other pilots will
break their gliders trying to get home just for the convenience (and
safety) of avoiding a field landing. If you think that pilots will
stop trying to finish and outland safely if they have no shot at
getting points, you haven't thought much about the long history of
guest pilots breaking their gliders at contests.

Jonathan Gere

Personally, I would go ahead and land. Most likely it would only mean
the difference between last place and next to last place for me
anyway.

No matter where you put the limit, the greater the point penalty for
missing it the more likely the competitive pilots might be to try and
climb back up to it. Especially since if they are only going to get
distance points if they don't make it work they have nearly all day to
try to get back up to the finish, since their speed won't count unless
the do make it to the finish.


Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...
Let say I am 3 miles out a 700 feet in calm air. Since where i fly we
have a 2 mile long runway and the finish cyilnder is typically
centered on the center of the runway the end of the runway is only 2
miles away. However I just miss the 500 foot finish at 2 miles out
(or am not sure if I hit it) At that point I hit a weak thermal (Which
can happen quite often at low altitudes) I am only 400 ft, but if I
can work this thermal to gain only 100 feet it is worth the 400 point
differnence between being scored only distance as opposed to speed.
(that is if I understand the rules correctly) Now you have a glider
thermalling between 400-600 feet AGL with other gliders finishing at
the 500ft level.

As I understand the rule, it's not just a matter of popping above the
500' agl floor of the cylinder. You'd have to thermal up, go back to
the outside of the 2 mile cylinder, and fly from there to the 1 mile
cylinder while staying above 500' agl. In the the situation you
describe, would you still be likely to try that weak thermal, or would
you just go ahead and land?

"BMacLean" wrote in message ...
Dumbing down competition for people who don't know how to do it but want to
participate with everyone else is not fair to the pilots who have worked
many years to learn the craft. It's supposed to be hard!

I agree it is supposed to be hard, but do not confuse unnecessarily
dangerous for hard.

Chris

John,

I would support a rule that was a lot simpler.
I just worked through the "donut" part of the rule and
that is not good.

It seems that finish at 500 ft at 1 mile would work just
as well and be much more simple.

I also would prefer 1000 ft to 500 ft. 500 ft is still pretty low.

Todd Smith
"3S"

"Todd Smith" wrote...
It seems that finish at 500 ft at 1 mile would work just
as well and be much more simple.

It's worked very well at the contests I've participated in that used it. After
pulling up, I'll have plenty of time to tidy up the cockpit, listen on the gate
frequency for other gliders finishing, listen on the airport frequency for
traffic, double check that the water is gone, get the gear down, make a few 360s
for a visual check of the pattern, and make a nice leisurely landing. All
without feeling like I'm giving up a huge number of points to the speed racers.

I also would prefer 1000 ft to 500 ft. 500 ft is still pretty low.

Don't go there, you'll only start some people frothing at the mouth!

Seriously, 500 feet is actually excessive at typical finishing speeds (80+
knots). If you're going slower, an abbreviated pattern or a straight-in should
still be quite doable. But, there's nothing that says you have to cut your
finishes that close. I don't...

Marc