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IFR Cancellation Question



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 8th 06, 09:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 8
Default IFR Cancellation Question


"Milen Lazarov" wrote in message
...

Why? You can get an altitude assignment while VFR and Seattle center
usually asks me to report the field in sight (PAE) even when I'm VFR
before terminating radar services.


Yes, you can get an altitude assignment while VFR, but you can't (properly)
get one from Seattle Center while VFR. Reporting the field serves a purpose
if you're IFR, but not if you're VFR.


  #22  
Old December 8th 06, 09:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 8
Default IFR Cancellation Question


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

For IFR handling, approach would hold me to tower frequency and
cancellation of IFR is terminated once wheels touch terra firma is what I
was lead to believe. Surely they wouldn't (or couldn't) terminate radar
services before having me contact tower at a controlled airport?


They would if the tower had no radar.


  #23  
Old December 8th 06, 10:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Nathan Young
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Posts: 108
Default IFR Cancellation Question

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:10:15 -0800, Milen Lazarov
wrote:

On 2006-12-08, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"dlevy" wrote in message
...

Does "Sundowner 1943L, descend and maintain 2000, report Madison in
sight." imply the controller thought he was IFR?


Yes.


Why? You can get an altitude assignment while VFR and Seattle center
usually asks me to report the field in sight (PAE) even when I'm VFR
before terminating radar services.


I don't think the above state (descend and maintain) implies IFR.
However, earlier in the post, the controller told the pilot to expect
the visual. That is very much an IFR procedure, and not a VFR one.

So at least at that point the controller thought the original poster
was IFR.

  #24  
Old December 8th 06, 10:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
A Lieberma
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Posts: 318
Default IFR Cancellation Question

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...

For IFR handling, approach would hold me to tower frequency and
cancellation of IFR is terminated once wheels touch terra firma is
what I was lead to believe. Surely they wouldn't (or couldn't)
terminate radar services before having me contact tower at a
controlled airport?


They would if the tower had no radar.


Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

Allen
  #25  
Old December 8th 06, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Robert Chambers
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Posts: 81
Default IFR Cancellation Question

Or unless you cancel in the air which is sometimes easier to do at a
field with no RCO or a tower that is closed.

You can also cancel in the air to help people out, I've been on an IFR
plan (but by the time I was approaching the field was VFR conditions)
and I heard a Jet at the hold short "ready for release" the tower said
"I have one IFR arrival inbound, expect a 3 minute delay" once that was
acknowledged I said "N1234 is cancelling IFR at this time" got the
cancellation and they released the jet to go before I got there. The
jet jockey (which surprised me) threw me a thank you before he got
switched over to approach.

Anything to make the system work that makes sense is ok in my book.

A Lieberma wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:


"A Lieberma" wrote in message
8.18...

For IFR handling, approach would hold me to tower frequency and
cancellation of IFR is terminated once wheels touch terra firma is
what I was lead to believe. Surely they wouldn't (or couldn't)
terminate radar services before having me contact tower at a
controlled airport?


They would if the tower had no radar.



Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???

Allen

  #26  
Old December 8th 06, 10:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Roy Smith
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Posts: 478
Default IFR Cancellation Question

A Lieberma wrote:
They would if the tower had no radar.


Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own). IFR separation
doesn't require radar contact. It doesn't even require radio contact.
Both of those just make it possible to apply more efficient methods of
achieving the required separation.
  #27  
Old December 8th 06, 11:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jose[_1_]
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Posts: 1,632
Default IFR Cancellation Question

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own).


If your wheels touch the ground on a Cat IIIc missed approach though,
you ought to still be IFR. That would be one pretty pickle.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #28  
Old December 8th 06, 11:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mark Hansen
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Posts: 420
Default IFR Cancellation Question

On 12/08/06 13:54, Roy Smith wrote:
A Lieberma wrote:
They would if the tower had no radar.


Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?

IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own). IFR separation
doesn't require radar contact. It doesn't even require radio contact.
Both of those just make it possible to apply more efficient methods of
achieving the required separation.


So I wonder if the confusion came when ATC told Allen to Squawk VFR?
This just means that you're no longer in radar contact, and not that
you're no longer IFR, right?

Or, are you supposed to maintain your transponder code until changed
by ATC or you cancel IFR - even if radar service is terminated?

I think the only thing that was missing in Allen's case was the
clearance to fly the visual approach.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
  #29  
Old December 8th 06, 11:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Roy Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default IFR Cancellation Question

In article ,
Jose wrote:

At a towered airport without radar, you are still IFR until your wheels
touch the ground (assuming you don't cancel on your own).


If your wheels touch the ground on a Cat IIIc missed approach though,
you ought to still be IFR. That would be one pretty pickle.

Jose


If you're flying a Cat IIIc approach, the tower probably can't see you,
your wheels, or the runway, so it works out.
  #30  
Old December 9th 06, 12:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Newps
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Posts: 1,886
Default IFR Cancellation Question



A Lieberma wrote:
Newps wrote in
:


Approach can do both. It depends on the service they are able to
provide.



For VFR handling, I would agree with the above, though in my neck of the
woods, I have never heard approach tell VFR traffic to squawk VFR and
expect them to contact tower on their own.


That is a regional thing. Some places are famous for terminating
aircraft very close to a class D boundary.




For IFR handling, approach would hold me to tower frequency and
cancellation of IFR is terminated once wheels touch terra firma is what I
was lead to believe. Surely they wouldn't (or couldn't) terminate radar
services before having me contact tower at a controlled airport?


Sure they can. If they don't have radar coverage they will terminate you.
 




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