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New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 10th 19, 05:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,106
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

OK....crude.....most peeps can opt out now......crude reply...........followup that is NSFW.......
Ads
  #22  
Old January 11th 19, 07:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,228
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate


Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou


Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Bull****. That is absolutely not true. The TN72 jn an experimental aircraft meets all requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. Absolutely clear in Trig documentation, and I've described this many times here. But don't let that stop you just saying it's not with no proof....
  #23  
Old January 13th 19, 04:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Williams
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Posts: 160
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 12:20:05 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate

Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou


Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Bull****. That is absolutely not true. The TN72 jn an experimental aircraft meets all requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. Absolutely clear in Trig documentation, and I've described this many times here. But don't let that stop you just saying it's not with no proof....


Jeez Darryl, such vitriol, Twice in my post I alluded to my Relative ignorance, "I believe" and "Simple as I"
  #24  
Old January 13th 19, 06:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Posts: 104
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

Darryl Ramm I am just curious what exactly are your qualifications to expound so expertly on avionics?
  #25  
Old January 13th 19, 07:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,228
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:16:55 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 12:20:05 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate

Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou

Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!


Bull****. That is absolutely not true. The TN72 jn an experimental aircraft meets all requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. Absolutely clear in Trig documentation, and I've described this many times here. But don't let that stop you just saying it's not with no proof....


Jeez Darryl, such vitriol, Twice in my post I alluded to my Relative ignorance, "I believe" and "Simple as I"


The virtiol is because r.a.s. is full of so much misinformation on stuff including ADS-B and FLARM. And you seeming made no effort to check stuff, or saying why you believe it. And this misinformation circulates around and around again.

You could have Googled for the TN72 installation documentation. That's where vendors typically clarify the compliance specs for "meets requirements" for experimental aircraft.

In this case the manual is super clear....

11.2 FAA 91.227 Compliance
When installed in accordance with this manual and used with the Trig TT22
and Trig TT31 transponders the TN72 meets the technical requirements of FAR
91.227 and the performance requirements of the applicable TSOs.

.... that's pretty classic "meets" (but not actual TSO approved) type language to look for.

---

Why did you believe this? Is there wrong information somewhere saying this? The TN72 had a slightly confusing launch with folks (including me) confused about what their exact early claims were. And they might be confusing things with the current different marketing packaging for experimental vs type certified aircraft--I had suggested to TRIG they not do that, but they may understand the reasons better than I do. They were trying to simplify stuff there, so I emphasize with that. The TN72 in the "TN72 GPS – TABS" and "TN72 GPS – X" are the exact same actual TN72 receivers. But I could imagine how for example somebody might read about the "TN72 GPS-TABS" product info and walk away believing the TN72 can't do 2020 Compliance (it can in experimental aircraft).

  #26  
Old January 13th 19, 08:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,228
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 9:01:04 PM UTC-8, Charles Longley wrote:
Darryl Ramm I am just curious what exactly are your qualifications to expound so expertly on avionics?


Avionics? In general? None at all.

But transponders and ADS-B and FLARM... uh background in microwave electronics research (some related tech there actually made it into radar systems). Understand how stuff works... read RTCA standards, vendor doc etc.. Interest in the adoption of transponders in gliders for safety, active in that along with many other in CA/NV, flying at Minden during the ASG-29/Hawker midair, got involved in trying to stop the pro-UAT insanity following the post midair push for UAT adoption. Worked with the Southeast Aerospace, the initial Trig distributors in the USA to get Trig transponders available to glider market resellers. Was vocal with FLARM entering the USA that the device with 1090ES In support should be what is sold, some others did mange to sneak though. Had a friend killed in a glider midair before we had FLARM in the USA. Got to know the FLARM folks and have provided some advice to them, but absolutely nothing like the herculean work that Dave Nadler did to get PowerFLARM working in the USA. Or that say Rex Mayes did to get PowerFLARM rentals to happen. Worked with different organizations on things related to glider midair and NMAC events. Helped FLARM and others with advice involved with their input to the development of TABS/TSO-C199. Provided input to Soaring Association of Canada on ADS-B technology directions in Canada. Worked to get Trig to exhibit and talk at the last SSA convention. Poke around in Stratux source code, write my own software utilities to play with stuff. Worked with Trig and Peregrine systems to get the Peregrine TN70 STC available for use in glider installs (Wings and Wheels really helped push there as well). And have helped with many TN72 and a few TN70 installs, given advice to A&Ps doing installs, helped explain things like TABS to FSDO staff etc.. helped several owners reply to FAA ADS-B non-compliance letters. Given lots of talk on transponders and ASD-B stuff to the glider community. Some parts of Cumulus Soaring web content on transponders were written by me and Eric Greenwell. Parts of Craggy Aero's web page for setting up the TN72 was written by me. In my silicon valley day job occasionally get called for input on aerospace/tech investments some that overlap with this stuff. Enough for now.. I need to go find an old transponder presentation for folks in Germany who want to use it for training...






  #27  
Old January 13th 19, 08:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,228
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:47:35 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:16:55 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 12:20:05 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate

Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou

Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!

Bull****. That is absolutely not true. The TN72 jn an experimental aircraft meets all requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. Absolutely clear in Trig documentation, and I've described this many times here. But don't let that stop you just saying it's not with no proof....


Jeez Darryl, such vitriol, Twice in my post I alluded to my Relative ignorance, "I believe" and "Simple as I"


The virtiol is because r.a.s. is full of so much misinformation on stuff including ADS-B and FLARM. And you seeming made no effort to check stuff, or saying why you believe it. And this misinformation circulates around and around again.

You could have Googled for the TN72 installation documentation. That's where vendors typically clarify the compliance specs for "meets requirements" for experimental aircraft.

In this case the manual is super clear....

11.2 FAA 91.227 Compliance
When installed in accordance with this manual and used with the Trig TT22
and Trig TT31 transponders the TN72 meets the technical requirements of FAR
91.227 and the performance requirements of the applicable TSOs.

... that's pretty classic "meets" (but not actual TSO approved) type language to look for.

---

Why did you believe this? Is there wrong information somewhere saying this? The TN72 had a slightly confusing launch with folks (including me) confused about what their exact early claims were. And they might be confusing things with the current different marketing packaging for experimental vs type certified aircraft--I had suggested to TRIG they not do that, but they may understand the reasons better than I do. They were trying to simplify stuff there, so I emphasize with that. The TN72 in the "TN72 GPS – TABS" and "TN72 GPS – X" are the exact same actual TN72 receivers. But I could imagine how for example somebody might read about the "TN72 GPS-TABS" product info and walk away believing the TN72 can't do 2020 Compliance (it can in experimental aircraft).


And I forgot. Years ago helped Max Trescott (my favorite aviation writer/podcaster) with technical content on ADS-B technology for articles in EAA Sport magazine. Helped authors on several technical articles in Soaring Magazine (Hi Andy).
  #28  
Old January 13th 19, 03:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,455
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainersqualify

.... And Darryl was very helpful to me in getting my TT22/TN70 system up
and running in my Stemme.

I would add that the Peregrine STC material does not address gliders
and, indeed no glider is listed in their AML (Approved Model List). I
spoke with Peregrine tech support and their position was that gliders
are pretty much on their own but, using the installation data provided
in the STC kit, it was a simple matter for me to install (under
supervision) and for my IA to endorse and sign off my log book and
prepare and send an Informational FAA Form 337 to the feds and one for
my aircraft records.* The flight test was simple - just go fly in rule
airspace for 30 minutes and do some maneuvering, then fill out the test
report request on line.* The report comes back in a matter of minutes.

As I have said before, there are (at least) two different links to
follow for the test report.* The link you'll likely find with a google
search will take you to the report request page but, if you're working
on the rebate, you'll need to go to a different link which is provided
with your rebate reservation.

On 1/13/2019 12:46 AM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:47:35 PM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:16:55 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 12:20:05 AM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 7:37:09 PM UTC-8, Scott Williams wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, MNLou wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
Pure gliders are not eligible for the rebate
Are sustainer equipped experimental aircraft eligible?

Thanks -

Lou
Also, I believe the Tn72 is not full 2020 compliant, for that even in an experimental you must use the $1900 Tn70, as far as Trig made products.
I wish this whole topic was simpler, or at least as Simple as I am!!
Bull****. That is absolutely not true. The TN72 jn an experimental aircraft meets all requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. Absolutely clear in Trig documentation, and I've described this many times here. But don't let that stop you just saying it's not with no proof....
Jeez Darryl, such vitriol, Twice in my post I alluded to my Relative ignorance, "I believe" and "Simple as I"

The virtiol is because r.a.s. is full of so much misinformation on stuff including ADS-B and FLARM. And you seeming made no effort to check stuff, or saying why you believe it. And this misinformation circulates around and around again.

You could have Googled for the TN72 installation documentation. That's where vendors typically clarify the compliance specs for "meets requirements" for experimental aircraft.

In this case the manual is super clear....

11.2 FAA 91.227 Compliance
When installed in accordance with this manual and used with the Trig TT22
and Trig TT31 transponders the TN72 meets the technical requirements of FAR
91.227 and the performance requirements of the applicable TSOs.

... that's pretty classic "meets" (but not actual TSO approved) type language to look for.

---

Why did you believe this? Is there wrong information somewhere saying this? The TN72 had a slightly confusing launch with folks (including me) confused about what their exact early claims were. And they might be confusing things with the current different marketing packaging for experimental vs type certified aircraft--I had suggested to TRIG they not do that, but they may understand the reasons better than I do. They were trying to simplify stuff there, so I emphasize with that. The TN72 in the "TN72 GPS – TABS" and "TN72 GPS – X" are the exact same actual TN72 receivers. But I could imagine how for example somebody might read about the "TN72 GPS-TABS" product info and walk away believing the TN72 can't do 2020 Compliance (it can in experimental aircraft).

And I forgot. Years ago helped Max Trescott (my favorite aviation writer/podcaster) with technical content on ADS-B technology for articles in EAA Sport magazine. Helped authors on several technical articles in Soaring Magazine (Hi Andy).


--
Dan, 5J
  #29  
Old January 15th 19, 02:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Posts: 104
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

There’s no such thing as an informational 337. A 337 is a 337. There’s several ways to get approved data. Not sure you guys understand the process.
  #30  
Old January 15th 19, 03:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Funston[_3_]
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Posts: 80
Default New $500 FAA ADS-B Rebate ... some motorgliders/sustainers qualify

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 5:53:17 PM UTC-8, Charles Longley wrote:
There’s no such thing as an informational 337. A 337 is a 337. There’s several ways to get approved data. Not sure you guys understand the process.


Charlie, the FAA has unfortunately chosen to use the 337 form to inform them of ADS-B installations, causing much confusion and consternation in the mechanic community. They have asked for these forms to go directly to OK City and not to the local FSDO. Please refer to AFS-360_2016-03-02

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgPolicy.nsf/0/1fdea629cd029a7c86257f7900601653/$FILE/AFS-360_2016-03-02.pdf

Yes, Darryl Ramm is our resident ADS-B expert. He has spent many hours working on the behalf of SSA and the US gliding community helping navigate the federal maze.

Thanks,
Craig Funston
 




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