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#41
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A Guy Called Tyketto writes:
You miss the point again. ATC does *NOT* have to reply to you at all, despite all your calls for Class B clearance. If you do not hear from them, you're not getting into the Bravo at all. So you'd better get below it (assuming you can without passing through it), stay above it (assuming you can without passing through it), or go around it. Brad, I can only assume that you do not see the gaping holes in your reasoning, but I certainly do, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I suggest you join the Internet Chess Club and "play" me there. I'm a very poor and indifferent chess player, and you could beat me easily (I'm at the bottom of the rankings). That would satisfy your desire to "beat" me, and your efforts would not be doomed to failure as they are here. Additionally, it would spare other people on this newsgroup your sophomoric attempts to demonstrate a superiority over me that you do not possess, and the group could return to intelligent discussion of aviation. I'm tired of indulging you here. |
#42
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On Oct 1, 9:11*pm, (Don Poitras) wrote:
wrote: On Oct 1, 7:07?pm, brian whatcott wrote: In VMC, there are VFR approaches, and practice IFR approaches. In IMC there are IFR approaches. Full stop. Brian, I think it's ATC facility dependent for IFR approaches and full stops. I get touch and goes on IFR approaches on IFR clearances routinely my neck of the woods. Touch and goes also can be done on IFR XC round robins. *Just file to a fix at the destination airport, pick up the approach clearance and fly back home after the touch and go. "Full stop" is British for "Period." -- Don Poitras Ahh, thanks! Never knew :-) |
#43
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On Oct 2, 2:13*am, A Guy Called Tyketto
So if you are told to maintain a given altitude while in the Bravo with your clearance to enter the Bravo, you will be no where near 'you can do what you want'. In short, you're a guest in Class B airspace, and at the command of what ATC needs you to do, based on their workload, other traffic, and/or any other limitations. Well stated Brad. Guest being a key word. Loitering is not permitted without explicit permission in Bravo. |
#44
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On Oct 2, 1:45*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
If you are thinking Class B, you can do what you want in Class B, UNLESS ATC tells you otherwise, and PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT YOU HAVE A CLEARANCE into the airspace before you enter it. (emphasis added) YOU CAN ADD ALL THE EMPHASIS YOU WANT, THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS WRONG. |
#45
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#46
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On Oct 2, 9:56*am, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 10/2/2010 7:28 AM, wrote: On Oct 2, 1:45 am, Mxsmanic wrote: If you are thinking Class B, you can do what you want in Class B, UNLESS ATC tells you otherwise, and PROVIDED OF COURSE THAT YOU HAVE A CLEARANCE into the airspace before you enter it. (emphasis added) YOU CAN ADD ALL THE EMPHASIS YOU WANT, THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS WRONG. What's wrong about it? The first sentence before his word unless..... Start from the beginning of this thread see why I say this. His response to the OP question is so far off base it's ridiculous. |
#47
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#48
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On Oct 2, 12:16*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
You are clearly reading more into his statement than what's there. No.... He said I can do what I want in Bravo. I cannot. I can decline an ATC instruction as PIC for remaining VMC rather then penetrate a cloud or the unlikely possibility of traffic conflict, but I CANNOT do as I well please in Bravo. AS I EXPLAINED BEFORE..... If KMEM says cleared visual into Memphis, I am not expected to go willy nilly. I am expected to make a straight line approach into Memphis. Not take a scenic tour along the route from my position to the threshold. If I wish such a deviation, I best get a clearance. UNNECESSARY S turns slows my ground speed and I am sure would mess up ATC's chess game of airplanes BEHIND me (not even considering the line of planes waiting for me to vacate the piece of pavement in front of me after landing). Same for altitude. If I am 2000, with a visual cleared to land with the above instructions, I best not climb without a clearance as I would suspect that is not expected by ATC and that airspace above is occupied by another airplane with the expectation I am to descend and land. Key thing is the expectation. Anything unexpected by ATC, I better request a clearance. This is how I run my shop in the real world. I have heard enough on Bravo freq. to substantiate what I am saying where somebody gummed up the works and got chewed out on the air because they did something unexpectedly. Mx MSFS world nothing like the real deal and I sure hope you can differentiate that even if he can't???????? |
#49
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#50
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On Oct 2, 5:43*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
Please explain exactly what he said can be done in B which you believe cannot. I JUST DID. Let me repeat myself AGAIN so we are very clear where Mx is wrong. He said I can do what I want in Bravo. I cannot. RE-READ MY PRIOR POST. To repeat myself AGAIN. You can't climb when you are expected to descend. You can't change course without ATC permission in Bravo. NOT SURE WHY YOU SNIPPED THAT OUT???? Lets go this route, be my guest if YOU wish to climb when making an approach to land or deviate from your EXPECTED heading without a clearance in Bravo. Not my ticket on the line. (see further down on how I handle Bravo) On Bravo transitions, when I request transition to XYZ airport, AFTER getting my Bravo clearance, I may get maintain at or below 4500. Lack of heading instructions does not give me permission to deviate. ATC expects a straight line from entry to XYZ airport before you exit Bravo. You best not be loitering over one's house while transitioning WITHOUT permission as ATC just may be planning that airspace behind you. AGAIN If I am going to do something different then what is expected, I will request from ATC permission. That is what I have done in KMEM, KPIT, KMSY, KBWI and KCLE bravo airspace for sight seeing and I have NOT been gigged for any time I queried to deviate. With all the radio traffic, you have to be concise and to the point and KNOW THE AREA for sight seeing in Bravo. I got from approach, deviation approved, advise when returning back on course when I did sight seeing tours in these areas. I have on the flip side been denied sight seeing twice due to traffic in the area. (houses were near IA approach fixes). Again, if YOU want to change headings IN BRAVO without notifying ATC JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T ISSUE YOU HEADING INSTRUCTIONS, be my guest, it won't be my ticket on the line. You just may be turning into an IA approach course filled up with airplanes!!!!! Lately I've noticed that Anthony has been making a real effort to make it clear that he only simulates. Perhaps it's time to give him a break? He sure DID NOT say he never flew a real plane in this thread until I called him out on it did he!!!!! He never answered my question about his experience in a real plane in Bravo did he!!!!! He won't get a break out of me until he stops lying to whom he responds to. At least the person receiving the answer will at least have a warning he has NO REAL WORLD experience. |
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