Next step(s) in purchase?

Douglas Paterson wrote:
Copy all. All are valid considerations--but, at the end of the day, I've
got to say I'm really looking forward to flying MY airplane back to MY
location. You know??


Doug,
Not only do I know, I had already figured out the route from Utah back
to Philly about 100 times. It really bugged me that I couldn't do it
but getting a qualified instructor, good weather and a few days off from
just wasn't happening for me. Enjoy the ride.

Dave
M35

On Tue, 22 May 2007 22:41:42 -0600, "Douglas Paterson"
wrote:

Hello, R.A.O.!

I'm returning to the well, hoping to continue a trend. If you recall (or
care to research) the messages I've posted over the last year or so, you'll
find I've been getting some great advice and stimulating discussion on
selecting an airplane (my first). After considering all inputs and my own
desires & mission, I've decided to go for... the TB-20 Socata "Trinidad."

snip


From the standpoint of one who went through your process, culminating
in a purchase in February, it appears to me that you pretty well have
your ducks in a row. I also bought a rarer bird, a Grumman Cheetah,
making the search quite similar to yours.

As I indicated in an earlier posting about that purchase, the ability
to remain as clinical as possible is your biggest asset. The more you
research, the more you know, and knowledge is power. By the time you
get to negotiations, you should know most Trinidads on the market and
how the one you're looking at compares.

The pre-buy seems to me to be the key to your deal. I second the idea
of getting the owner to suggest three nearby candidates, then
selecting the one you want. We used to use this process in arbitration
matters, and it usually works well.

The idea of taking a CFI with you to fly home is a good one. I did
that and am very grateful I did. Not only did I have the benefit of a
Grumman expert's knowledge, but my insurance reflected that
experience. I also did my BFR in the airplane a couple days after
purchase, and that was a great experience.

Just a few ideas. Best of luck on your search. Please buy soon so
you can start adding your AMUs to the pot; it will make us all feel
better.


Michael

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

Contact (I'm not kidding) First National Bank of Oskaloosa, in little
Oskaloosa, Iowa. This bank is run by pilots, and they specialize in
aircraft financing. Ask for Mary Anderson. Tell her I sent ya her
way. Contact info is he
https://www.fnbmidwest.com/
(Click on aircraft financing...)

I've had two loans from them, and never set foot in the bank. You do
not have to live anywhere near Iowa to take advantage of their
hospitality.



Jay:

I talked to Mary today. Super nice, super knowledgeable, as you said. I
was very impressed with the quote they gave me--more than 1% lower than any
other personal loan I've found. At the end of the day, though, it can't
compete with a HEL, due to the tax advantages (this is personal use for
me--best I'll be able to do is very occasional business travel, the lion's
share of expenses will NOT be tax deductible for me; tacking the finance
charges to my house and thereby making them deductible is the one exception
I've spotted on that).

To anyone looking for an aircraft loan: I highly second Jay's
recommendation. I haven't actually entered into commerce with them, but
they were very pleasant to talk to, they definitely "speak airplane," and
they seem to have the best rates going.

Thanks again for the pointer!
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

I talked to Mary today. Super nice, super knowledgeable, as you said. I
was very impressed with the quote they gave me--more than 1% lower than any
other personal loan I've found.

Ain't she sweet? She (and all the guys at First National Midwest, in
Oskaloosa) are *all* about airplanes. They even rent a booth in one
of the big exhibit hangars at OSH every year (and you'll see Mary
there for 8 hours every day, sweating along with the rest of us) --
THAT is how committed they are to doing aircraft loans.

At the end of the day, though, it can't
compete with a HEL

Yeah, that's usually the best deal possible, if you're not buying the
plane for your business.

Thanks again for the pointer!

No problem! Let us know how things go...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Douglas Paterson" wrote in message
. ..

I'll add the CFI rqmts question to the insurance discussion, thanks. Via
the Socata group, I've found several locations that rent Trinidads (with,
presumably, CFIs available for checkout purposes

....and it gets better! Turns out there's a club/flight school up in Denver
(BJC)--less than 75 miles from here--that just got a TB-20. They take daily
and/or monthly memberships, so I can "join" without "buying in," and take my
instruction locally.

Serendipitous!

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

Montblack wrote:

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

....and Jack is left out in the cold to fend for himself, eh? Sheesh,
one too many cracks about MontBlack and I'm yesterday's news :-)

No Mike's Lemonade for you!

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

Jay - Chief host and grand Poobah
Jim - Chief "Pointer" (points to Jay, points to beer, points to food,
etc. when asked appropriate questions)
Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy
Jack - Chief taste tester for any and all Mike's Lemonade. Can also
substitute for Jim in the pointing department. Can also assist in
beer/fud runs.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Douglas Paterson wrote:
Congrats on being ready to pull the ownership trigger. Been there/done
that and just getting ready to plunk down cash on an airplane takes a
lot of time and effort.

7) Travel--when ready on both ends
7a) Inspect logs
7b) Pre-buy inspection
7c) Test flight--who pays for this? any specific maneuvers, etc., to
run through?
I wouldn't hesitate to pay for it yourself. In the grand scheme of
things, it's a nit. Offer to pay...maybe the owner will say "Nah, it's
on me". Either way, cost of fuel for the ride is small. Do as many
flight maneuvers as you can, take it around the patch for a few
landings, work all the avionics possible, etc.

7d) Negotiate price--I have NO idea how to do this, any hints
appreciated!

It's like buying a house. We made an offer contingent upon a successful
pre-buy. We worded it such that the owner would pay for any
airworthiness issues and we'd negotiate any other squawks. Since the
bird just came out of annual, all airworthiness issues had been
resolved. The squawk list was short and minor so we opted to deal with
them. It's tough to make an offer before seeing the plane. In our
case, it was pretty clean and I had a chance to talk to the shop that
did the annual. We offered approx. 10% less than asking price, seller
countered a tad higher and we accepted, conditional on the pre-buy. We
then sent the seller a deposit.


9) Get 5 hours time-in-type dual (insurance rqmt, and not a bad idea in my
book anyway)--considering options here, hoping I can find someplace to do
this ahead of time

Ahead of time is a good idea as well as the other suggestion about
taking a CFI with you. We had to when we bought the Arrow as two of us
did not have any complex time. The flight back counted towards the 10
hours dual instruction we each needed before being able to fly solo.

#9: Any advice/suggestions on where I can do this? I live in Colorado
Springs; I'm willing to travel if I must, but closer is better (read:
cheaper). Perhaps somewhere near Hartford would work well, since I may be
traveling there anyway. Note, this point really isn't tied to this specific
airplane, since it will carry to whatever plane I finally go with (unless I
change my target).

If you find a candidate plane somewhere, post here and maybe someone can
take a drive/flight to check it out for you. Jay H. did so for us on a
candidate that we opted not to buy...but it was great! Jay provided
*tons* of pictures as well as an independent assessment of the plane and
seller.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
7) Travel--when ready on both ends
7a) Inspect logs
7b) Pre-buy inspection
7c) Test flight--who pays for this? any specific maneuvers, etc.,
to run through?
7d) Negotiate price--I have NO idea how to do this, any hints
appreciated!

It's like buying a house. We made an offer contingent upon a successful
pre-buy. We worded it such that the owner would pay for any airworthiness
issues and we'd negotiate any other squawks. Since the bird just came out
of annual, all airworthiness issues had been resolved. The squawk list
was short and minor so we opted to deal with them. It's tough to make an
offer before seeing the plane. In our case, it was pretty clean and I had
a chance to talk to the shop that did the annual. We offered approx. 10%
less than asking price, seller countered a tad higher and we accepted,
conditional on the pre-buy. We then sent the seller a deposit.

Jack, thanks for the advice. Sounds like you're telling me I'm doing it out
of order: you had a purchase agreement (presumably including selling price)
*before* the pre-buy? I see some obvious advantages to that--if there's no
agreement, you don't spend any money on inspections, etc. (much like when
one buys a house). However, it seems to be impractical, unless I make a
sight-unseen offer. How to weigh those??

Perhaps split the difference? Have a purchase agreement (with a blank
selling price) ready to go when I look at the plane/logs, write in a price &
present it to the seller after I inspect but before the pre-buy? If we
can't come to an agreement, I'm still out travel costs, but I save the
pre-buy.... Or should I be considering making the offer sight-unseen,
perhaps with some sort of "subject to inspection" clause?? I have a good
feeling about the one I'm looking at, the seller seems a straight shooter,
I've talked to his mechanic (annual just done in Apr) and others familiar
with him/his plane....

I'm sure this is easier the second (& subsequent) time around--but I'm
working harder on this than I did to buy my first house!! Thanks for
the help/advice....
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

("Jack Allison" wrote)
Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

We're sorry, but those positions are currently full. You will have to make
up your own title.

Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy

WTF?? ...."Errand Boy"


Montblack
I'll retrieve, I do not "fetch" :-)

Montblack wrote:

("Jack Allison" wrote)

Jim Burns and Montblack have promoted themselves to "Assistant Hosts" for
this years N40 Party.

Or...do I just need to self promote myself to "Assistant Host #3"?

We're sorry, but those positions are currently full. You will have to make
up your own title.

Paul - Chief fud/beer errand boy

WTF?? ...."Errand Boy"

Montblack
I'll retrieve, I do not "fetch" :-)

I have two titles I'm rather proud of. The first, is "Head Gopher & Flunkey"
When I had a trip to the ER many years ago (fell off my bike) they asked
where I was employed and what I did.

Years later, the hospital *still* has that down on my records.

The other title is "Entertainment Director, SIGBOOZE". In the computer
industry, a SIG is a Special Interest Group. For my professional
society, there are 40-odd SIGs. Back in the 80s we created SIGBOOZE.
And yes, I have a name tag and everything (even our logo, a martini
glass)