I think I know why so many Cirrus' crash

Congratulations. I have been waiting for your post since you told us last
week of your plans. Welcome to the wonderful world of "Real" flying;
something so many people think is an impossible feat.

--
John Huthmaker
PPL-SEL P-28-161

http://www.cogentnetworking.com
"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
Coming back from KCOS to 00V today several aircraft were in the
pattern for runway 33 and some people wanted runway 15 since the winds
were at the changeover point. With one or two at the runup area for
runway 15 I just went east until the fiasco was sorted out (I made
several position reports since people were all over).

Once that happened I announced my intentions (enter left downwind for
15) about 7-8 miles out and not long after that a Cirrus announced he
was 10 miles out. When I was on left downwind the Cirrus pilot
broadcast that he was on about 4 mile base for 15. I "assumed" he
meant downwind. Then when I was about to turn base he called out four
mile FINAL for 15. I saw a plane in that area and turned base
(calling it out by radio of course)

He asked if I was cutting in front of him and I stated "Looks like
it."

Soon thereafter I decided that I was too fast so went around then when
on downwind again stated that his (Cirrus "pilot") pattern entry was
bad. His response was "I called it out." I told him that it was not
good when other planes are using a standard pattern. Had he been the
only one around I would not have cared.

Thus my assessment is that Cirrus pilots have too much money and
inadequate pilot skills/common sense. Other fatal crashes just add to
this perception.

Ron Lee

Michael Ware wrote:

I got landing clearance once, 'Cessna 1234Z clear to land, short approach,
Hawker traffic five mile final'.
'Unable, continuing downwind'

I got a takeoff clearance like that once. Something big belonging to some
airline was on five mile final. I figured that gave me about 2 minutes to get
out of his way. By the time he hit the ground, I was about 1,000' up.

Landing's a whole different ball game, though. I think I would've stayed on
downwind too.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote:


"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
Coming back from KCOS to 00V today several aircraft were in the
pattern for runway 33 and some people...

major deletion

...ey and
inadequate pilot skills/common sense. Other fatal crashes just add to
this perception.

Ron Lee

...and you, of course, did nothing wrong????

Other than letting the issue of watching for other traffic ...
particularly the Cirrus .. distract me from being at a better
airpseed. NO The go around was the proper response to the "excess"
airspeed.

Ron Lee

"Tony" wrote:

Ron, a serious question here. I appreciate good judgement when you
chose to go around being too fast somewhere on final, but would you say
a few words as to what might have set up that circumstance?

Was it a short runway, or was someone slow getting off the active, or
did you just come in too hot to put enough spacing between you and the
Cirrus?

I was distracted by the traffic issues and "see and avoid a collision"
took precedence over optimal airspeed management. This was
particularly relevant when I turned base and was looking for someone
on final who should not have been there; assessing the distance of
that aircraft and speed for relevance to my normal approach. No
excuse but it was a factor and my best judgement was to go-around
rather than attempt to salvage a poor approach.

Ron Lee

"John Huthmaker" wrote:

Congratulations. I have been waiting for your post since you told us last
week of your plans. Welcome to the wonderful world of "Real" flying;
something so many people think is an impossible feat.

--
John Huthmaker

Care to explain what you are talking about?

Ron Lee

Andrew Gideon wrote:

Ron Lee wrote:

Thus my assessment is that Cirrus pilots have too much money and
inadequate pilot skills/common sense. Other fatal crashes just add to
this perception.


A problem with your extrapolation from this single data point is that I know
someone that has similarly poor pattern behavior but who is a 182 owner.

- Andrew

Andrew, I have had concerns about Cirrus pilots after reading of some
of the parachute deployments. This just adds fuel even if not
statistically significant.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:

Care to explain what you are talking about?

I would suspect that he meant to reply to the thread of the individual who
just took his first discovery flight, elsewhere in this newsgroup.

--
Peter

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:16:05 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

Coming back from KCOS to 00V today several aircraft were in the
pattern for runway 33 and some people wanted runway 15 since the winds
were at the changeover point. With one or two at the runup area for
runway 15 I just went east until the fiasco was sorted out (I made
several position reports since people were all over).

Hey Ron, I flew out of 00V today as well. We took off around 1030ish
and came back around 1230ish. There was a SR-22 in the pattern from
the time we were preflighting till we took off. If it was the same
one, and I am assuming it was, it appeared to me that he was a fairly
new pilot as well. I was watching his pattern work and his landings
and needless to say, they were not spectacular at all. I watch about
4-5 of his landings and they were always to fast which caused him to
touch down almost midfield every time, and he would bounce it several
times after that. The guy I was with, made the comment to the fact of
"what is wrong with that guy". So you were not the only one to see
this type of flying from him.


Scott D.

I've been thinking about the Cirrus accident rate lately, and I think
that there are several factors that haven't really been discussed. I've
noticed that on Flightaware, there are usually about twice as many
Cirruses (Cirrusi?) flying IFR at any given moment than V-tail
Bonanzas. I don't know the total number of registered Bonanzas vs. the
total number of registered Cirrus, but I'm sure there are more
Bonanzas. (This observation doesn't apply right now as there is only
one Cirrus listed at the moment.) Also newer airplanes with a
perception of much greater safety (parachute?) could be flown in
conditions that an aircraft with a lesser perception of safety would be
left in the hangar. Think of the way that the Titanic was operated
because it was considered unsinkable, it was safer than other ships,
until it was operated differently because of the perception that it was
unsinkable. Perhaps there are also more Cirrus pilots with a
combination of more money and less aviation experience than other
aircraft. (doctors and lawyers etc.) I've heard from CFI's that the
worst kind of person to teach how to fly is a self made man, as they
tend to worship their creator too much. I've flown about 35 different
models of aircraft and each one had different flying characteristics,
some of which weren't exactly ideal. That doesn't mean that any
particular model was "unsafe", since I was taught that the definition
of safety is, "the acceptable level of risk".

"Ron Lee"

Thus my assessment is that Cirrus pilots have too much money and
inadequate pilot skills/common sense. Other fatal crashes just add to
this perception.

There are idiots everywhere flying all kinds of planes. Nothing special
about Cirruses except they stand out and draw jealous ire from people who
can't afford them.

moo