GIVEN CURRENT WARS, F-35s ARE BETTER CHOICE THAN MORE F-22As

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
.. .

"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...

No more Sandys dumping napalm on the treeline from knife-fight altitude -
a scene much used by Hollywood.
I wonder how the movies would portray LGBs arriving out of the blue?


Laser Guided Bombs? How old-fashioned...

Tex Houston

Well until someone comes up with a JDAM variant that can have its aimpoint
changed while it falls - for moving targets - I'll stick with "old
fashioned" laser guided bombs and LOAL missiles.

On Jun 13, 2:16*pm, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:
"Typhoon502" wrote in message

news:bfaabc1b-2e05-46d1-902a-

And if you think Russia and China are the only potential threats on
the horizon that the F-22 might be suitable against, you're naive and
blind.

name these threats.
and where do they get their stuff? there is us, russia,the UK and france to
buy from.
who else has the aero-industry and the resources to build a fleet of $100
fighters?.

Let's say India and Pakistan engage in a shooting war that has the
potential to go nuclear and/or threatens shipping and neighboring
countries. Both India and Pakistan have fourth-generation fighters,
including Indian Su-30s. If the US and/or UN intervene, the F-22 would
be at the center of any air dominance strategy because it has the
speed, radar, sensor fusion, and data sharing (and training) to sort
out airborne traffic, identify threats, and either deter or kill
aggressive combat aircraft without exposing itself to retaliation.
There's one scenario.

North Korea decides to push south. They've got MiG-23s and MiG-29s,
and unbeknownst to Western intelligence, they've got a small force of
Su-34 strike jets that are flying interdiction missions against
strategic SoKo targets. F-15s from Kadena have their hands full with
the Fulcums and can't operate effectively in the NK air defense
environment. F-22s are needed to catch the Su-34s in transit because
the Raptors can get north fast, pick out the targets with APG-77, and
make the kills without showing up on radar and thus avoiding the worst
of the SAM threat. There's another.

Venezuela decides to annex part of Guyana like Iraq went after Kuwait.
Venezuela's Su-30s have a magnitude greater combat capability than
anything that can locally be sent up to defend Guyana, and are an easy
match for F-15Cs and F-18Es. The F-22s are the only jets available
that can outfight the Su-30s, some of which turn out to be piloted by
Russian "advisors." There's another.

Those are a few scenarios. None of them are particularly wild. And
that doesn't include potential Russian, Chinese, or Middle East
brewups.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT), Typhoon502
wrote:

On Jun 13, 2:16*pm, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:
"Typhoon502" wrote in message

news:bfaabc1b-2e05-46d1-902a-

And if you think Russia and China are the only potential threats on
the horizon that the F-22 might be suitable against, you're naive and
blind.

name these threats.
and where do they get their stuff? there is us, russia,the UK and france to
buy from.
who else has the aero-industry and the resources to build a fleet of $100
fighters?.

Let's say India and Pakistan engage in a shooting war that has the
potential to go nuclear and/or threatens shipping and neighboring
countries. Both India and Pakistan have fourth-generation fighters,
including Indian Su-30s. If the US and/or UN intervene, the F-22 would
be at the center of any air dominance strategy because it has the
speed, radar, sensor fusion, and data sharing (and training) to sort
out airborne traffic, identify threats, and either deter or kill
aggressive combat aircraft without exposing itself to retaliation.
There's one scenario.

North Korea decides to push south. They've got MiG-23s and MiG-29s,
and unbeknownst to Western intelligence, they've got a small force of
Su-34 strike jets that are flying interdiction missions against
strategic SoKo targets. F-15s from Kadena have their hands full with
the Fulcums and can't operate effectively in the NK air defense
environment. F-22s are needed to catch the Su-34s in transit because
the Raptors can get north fast, pick out the targets with APG-77, and
make the kills without showing up on radar and thus avoiding the worst
of the SAM threat. There's another.

Venezuela decides to annex part of Guyana like Iraq went after Kuwait.
Venezuela's Su-30s have a magnitude greater combat capability than
anything that can locally be sent up to defend Guyana, and are an easy
match for F-15Cs and F-18Es. The F-22s are the only jets available
that can outfight the Su-30s, some of which turn out to be piloted by
Russian "advisors." There's another.

Those are a few scenarios. None of them are particularly wild. And
that doesn't include potential Russian, Chinese, or Middle East
brewups.

It is patently unfair to introduce anything like facts or rational
argument into a usenet discussion. We are anticipating a Supreme Court
ruling later this week confirming this basic Constitutional guarantee.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org

On Jun 13, 4:08*pm, Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT), Typhoon502

Those are a few scenarios. None of them are particularly wild. And
that doesn't include potential Russian, Chinese, or Middle East
brewups.

It is patently unfair to introduce anything like facts or rational
argument into a usenet discussion. We are anticipating a Supreme Court
ruling later this week confirming this basic Constitutional guarantee.


Too true. And Tim Russert died today, too. Out of respect, I choose
not to engage the dummies in debates that are out of their league.

Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...
"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...
"Tiger" wrote in message
...
Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Tiger" wrote in message
...

Raymond O'Hara wrote:

"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...
and they waited post war to build post war.



Why do I get the feeling When ever folk say the earth is round, you will
post it's flat???? What waiting? Dick Bong was killed testing P-80's in
Aug of 1945. Work on the A bomb never stopped. The race for the Ebe
river was a race gain zones of control postwar. Nobody was waiting.....













we are currently engaged in two wars. we have a runaway deficit.
and you're advocating spending billions on a weapons system that will not
do anything for us.
it is a great plane and if it was the cold war sure. but times have
changed and we must too.
a big main force war isn't going to happen anytime in the next 50 years.
"Peace in our time" - the phrase seems vaguely familiar?

Well we can all go back to bed now, Mr. O'Hara has personally guaranteed
"World Peace".

we need to settle what we are involved in and get the budget under
control. then you can think about new toys for use against an imaginary
enemy.

If you ever stop thinking up "new toys for use against an imaginary enemy"
that is exactly the momemt the enemy ceaces to be imaginary. Cite the
Maginot Line as a prime example of such complacency.


again you and dan engage in strawman arguments.
you want us to turn into the UK, a bankrupt country.



I do? You really don't understand the current economy nor do you
seem to comprehend what is actually going on world wide. You don't seem
to have a grasp of potential threats.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Tiger" wrote in message
...

Raymond O'Hara wrote:

"Tiger" wrote in message
...


Raymond O'Hara wrote:


"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
.. .

and they waited post war to build post war.




Why do I get the feeling When ever folk say the earth is round, you will
post it's flat???? What waiting? Dick Bong was killed testing P-80's in
Aug of 1945. Work on the A bomb never stopped. The race for the Ebe river
was a race gain zones of control postwar. Nobody was waiting.....















we are currently engaged in two wars. we have a runaway deficit.
and you're advocating spending billions on a weapons system that will not do
anything for us.
it is a great plane and if it was the cold war sure. but times have changed
and we must too.
a big main force war isn't going to happen anytime in the next 50 years.
we need to settle what we are involved in and get the budget under control.
then you can think about new toys for use against an imaginary enemy.




Actually my position on this is in the middle. Right of your build
nothing side & left of the F-22 fanclub. Keep production at 183. Move
forward with the F35. Use the rest of the piggy bank on other USAF needs.

"Typhoon502" wrote in message
news:209963bf-6fe3-49eb-b87c- fighters?.

Let's say India and Pakistan engage in a shooting war that has the
potential to go nuclear and/or threatens shipping and neighboring
countries. Both India and Pakistan have fourth-generation fighters,
including Indian Su-30s. If the US and/or UN intervene, the F-22 would
be at the center of any air dominance strategy because it has the
speed, radar, sensor fusion, and data sharing (and training) to sort
out airborne traffic, identify threats, and either deter or kill
aggressive combat aircraft without exposing itself to retaliation.
There's one scenario.


right, shipping. what shipping woild it disrupt and why.
they've fought wars. they never attacked any shipping they have a long
border.
if they go nuclear we won't send troops,
nope not credible




North Korea decides to push south. They've got MiG-23s and MiG-29s,
and unbeknownst to Western intelligence, they've got a small force of
Su-34 strike jets that are flying interdiction missions against
strategic SoKo targets. F-15s from Kadena have their hands full with
the Fulcums and can't operate effectively in the NK air defense
environment. F-22s are needed to catch the Su-34s in transit because
the Raptors can get north fast, pick out the targets with APG-77, and
make the kills without showing up on radar and thus avoiding the worst
of the SAM threat. There's another.


tegular planes can beat them and russia isn't selling them the latest stuff
because they can't affotd to pay cash. NK is on the verge of famine. SK and
what we have in the inventory already would be more than adequate
nope not credible






Venezuela decides to annex part of Guyana like Iraq went after Kuwait.
Venezuela's Su-30s have a magnitude greater combat capability than
anything that can locally be sent up to defend Guyana, and are an easy
match for F-15Cs and F-18Es. The F-22s are the only jets available
that can outfight the Su-30s, some of which turn out to be piloted by
Russian "advisors." There's another.

we don't need F-22s to crush venezuela.
we'd take out the venezuelan aitforce faster than israel took out egypt in
67.





Those are a few scenarios. None of them are particularly wild. And
that doesn't include potential Russian, Chinese, or Middle East
brewups.



and none that can't be handled by what we have.
we haven't fallen behind, we still have more and better stuff plus we have
spare parts.
chavez makes a good boogyman because he is a bit of a loud mouth loon. but
all his talk aside venezuela is a 3rd world country.
california has more people. venezuela wouldn't do as well as iraq.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT), Typhoon502
wrote:

On Jun 13, 2:16 pm, "Raymond O'Hara"
wrote:
"Typhoon502" wrote in message

news:bfaabc1b-2e05-46d1-902a-

And if you think Russia and China are the only potential threats on
the horizon that the F-22 might be suitable against, you're naive and
blind.

name these threats.
and where do they get their stuff? there is us, russia,the UK and france
to
buy from.
who else has the aero-industry and the resources to build a fleet of
$100
fighters?.

Let's say India and Pakistan engage in a shooting war that has the
potential to go nuclear and/or threatens shipping and neighboring
countries. Both India and Pakistan have fourth-generation fighters,
including Indian Su-30s. If the US and/or UN intervene, the F-22 would
be at the center of any air dominance strategy because it has the
speed, radar, sensor fusion, and data sharing (and training) to sort
out airborne traffic, identify threats, and either deter or kill
aggressive combat aircraft without exposing itself to retaliation.
There's one scenario.

North Korea decides to push south. They've got MiG-23s and MiG-29s,
and unbeknownst to Western intelligence, they've got a small force of
Su-34 strike jets that are flying interdiction missions against
strategic SoKo targets. F-15s from Kadena have their hands full with
the Fulcums and can't operate effectively in the NK air defense
environment. F-22s are needed to catch the Su-34s in transit because
the Raptors can get north fast, pick out the targets with APG-77, and
make the kills without showing up on radar and thus avoiding the worst
of the SAM threat. There's another.

Venezuela decides to annex part of Guyana like Iraq went after Kuwait.
Venezuela's Su-30s have a magnitude greater combat capability than
anything that can locally be sent up to defend Guyana, and are an easy
match for F-15Cs and F-18Es. The F-22s are the only jets available
that can outfight the Su-30s, some of which turn out to be piloted by
Russian "advisors." There's another.

Those are a few scenarios. None of them are particularly wild. And
that doesn't include potential Russian, Chinese, or Middle East
brewups.

It is patently unfair to introduce anything like facts or rational
argument into a usenet discussion. We are anticipating a Supreme Court
ruling later this week confirming this basic Constitutional guarantee.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org


facts? they are all fantasy scenarios.
saddams imaginary WMDs were a more credible threat.

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...
"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in message
...
"Tiger" wrote in message
...
Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Tiger" wrote in message
...

Raymond O'Hara wrote:

"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...
and they waited post war to build post war.



Why do I get the feeling When ever folk say the earth is round, you
will post it's flat???? What waiting? Dick Bong was killed testing
P-80's in Aug of 1945. Work on the A bomb never stopped. The race for
the Ebe river was a race gain zones of control postwar. Nobody was
waiting.....













we are currently engaged in two wars. we have a runaway deficit.
and you're advocating spending billions on a weapons system that will
not do anything for us.
it is a great plane and if it was the cold war sure. but times have
changed and we must too.
a big main force war isn't going to happen anytime in the next 50
years.
"Peace in our time" - the phrase seems vaguely familiar?

Well we can all go back to bed now, Mr. O'Hara has personally guaranteed
"World Peace".

we need to settle what we are involved in and get the budget under
control. then you can think about new toys for use against an imaginary
enemy.

If you ever stop thinking up "new toys for use against an imaginary
enemy" that is exactly the momemt the enemy ceaces to be imaginary. Cite
the Maginot Line as a prime example of such complacency.


again you and dan engage in strawman arguments.
you want us to turn into the UK, a bankrupt country.



I do? You really don't understand the current economy nor do you seem
to comprehend what is actually going on world wide. You don't seem to have
a grasp of potential threats.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

you just bring up fantasy scenarios.

you don't understand the economy.
we can't at the momen affor billions for a plane that does one thing and
one thing that is the least likely threat.
in 30 years most likely UMVs will rule.

Airyx wrote in
:

[snip]

France thought WWII would be fought in much the same way as WWI, slow
stagnated trench warfare. That's what they were prepared for, and
that's why they got their butts kicked.

The French have an ancient tradition of preparing for the last
war.

IBM